[AdvanSuper]

TIL: Ford outsold Chevy all these months because of a future intake package they will offer... Makes so much sense... People were buying Mustangs because of a package that didn't exist and wasn't announced until very recently. That is some good ****ing logic right there.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by BoostedX2

This is exactly why MUSTANG outsells CAMARO:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...to-mustang-gt/

Calm down. It wasn't until about the end of 2015, start of 2016 that the new (S550) Mustang really started to see a lit of aftermarket support. To add on to that, in regards to the Ford Performance tunes and power packs, FP has been saying this stuff was coming since... beginning of summer last year.

The Camaro really only started getting into customer hands at the end of last fall. GM is working on stuff, as well as the afternarket. Give them time to develop.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by BoostedX2

This is exactly why MUSTANG outsells CAMARO:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...to-mustang-gt/

I 100% disagree! These are just grossly over priced add-ons, the reason it out outsells the Camaro is because it's dirt cheap. And then they offer these over-priced add-ons to try and narrow the gap to the Camaro performance wise. Good move by Ford IMO, but it's a lil too pricey. I already showed this to my Mustang friends and they were like "ohhh hell no that's too much $$$" that's the thing about most Mustang guys, they are super cheap.

[AdvanSuper]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

I 100% disagree! These are just grossly over priced add-ons, the reason it out outsells the Camaro is because it's dirt cheap. And then they offer these over-priced add-ons to try and narrow the gap to the Camaro performance wise. Good move by Ford IMO, but it's a lil too pricey. I already showed this to my Mustang friends and they were like "ohhh hell no that's too much $$$" that's the thing about most Mustang guys, they are super cheap.

These add-ons were just announced and won't be available until August, September and October... This has had absolutely no factor on sales. You are right though the Mustang is dirt cheap and that is why it outsells.

[irmb]

Originally Posted by BoostedX2

This is exactly why MUSTANG outsells CAMARO:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...to-mustang-gt/

Disagree. The majority of mustang owners -and therefore the majority of their unit sales are attributed to smaller engines (4 and 6 cylinder). These customers are not tuning.

in my opinion the reason why mustang outselss camaro is because mustangs are significantly cheaper.

yes, it's cool ford does this - but it barely moves the needle from a sales perspective.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

The tune voids the warranty. Even if you remove the tune, Ford can still find evidence of the tune and void the warranty.

Reading all of the fine print looks like the parts themselves have their own warranty. But if the product is bought/installed/ by a Ford Dealer these products will not void the warranty. That is the selling point of them. They are extremely conservative tunes. They had packs like this back for 3V cars, essentially they just offered the calibration from the Bullitt models/Shelby GT models.

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Go buy the ford racing supercharger, have it installed by Ford dealership and tell me If your factory warranty covers it. Also keep your ford fanboy attitude to yourself.

It does look like they have changed. The 05-09 3V cars when Ford worked with Whipple would cover your warranty if bought/installed by a Ford dealer. Again ultra conservative tunes, I think the Whipple kit they used to offer only added 100HP. Looks like the Roush one does not keep the factory warranty.

[cleoent]

I have a problem with these performance packs. Why doesn't ford just include this shit with the 40k car you're already buying? Same with the GM stuff. Lowering springs, exhaust, cold air intake, etc. Why not just use all those go fast and performance goodies on the car to begin with?

Seems like a bit of scam, especially when you consider that if you choose to use non oem go fast goodies, your warranty gets voided. Kind of whack.

[craz8]

Originally Posted by cleoent

I have a problem with these performance packs. Why doesn't ford just include this shit with the 40k car you're already buying? Same with the GM stuff. Lowering springs, exhaust, cold air intake, etc. Why not just use all those go fast and performance goodies on the car to begin with?

Seems like a bit of scam, especially when you consider that if you choose to use non oem go fast goodies, your warranty gets voided. Kind of whack.

Maybe to get around emissions requirements. I know the non-OEM tunes, for example, will often not pass emissions tests. Also you can promise 15HP here and there all you want, but the costs add up more than do the claims.

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

Good for Ford, the 5.0 can sure use it. I had a 2013 5.0 so I know the car well. The problem with the most power pack yields the lowest torque.

Power Pack 3 only adds 5 lbs/ft
37hp and 5lbs/ft peak gains over stock

The tunes not enough to beat an SS but it will def. make it more competitive. Also, the real reason why the Camaro's aren't selling is that the dealers are selling loaded ones.. 2SS's for an average price of 46-47k.

The less 6th Gens, the more exclusive so I'm not complaining!

I think that this is not an apples to apples comparison. Every comparison test report has simply stated that the GT is not in the same class as the Gen6 SS. Frankly the competition now is with the M4, S5, base Caymen or maybe even the F-Type. Frankly, there is some evidence (yep there are those comparisons, too) where the new Gen6 does well against the base 911 - little turbo, since they are all turbos now.

You have an American sports coupe that compares very well against the very best the world has to offer. The price of $45K-$50K is an extreme bargain, in this group.

If you want a higher quality interior, lengthy list of standard features, blistering straight line performance and truly world class handling, then your choices would be M4 (80K), S5 (55K less HP), F-Type S ($80K) 911 ($85K) or the SS-2SS at $47K.

Those are the cars that were in my consideration when I picked the SS. I looked at the GT, but it really wasn't in the same class.

These were the marks that GM was aiming for.

[Rsblueblood]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Calm down. It wasn't until about the end of 2015, start of 2016 that the new (S550) Mustang really started to see a lit of aftermarket support. To add on to that, in regards to the Ford Performance tunes and power packs, FP has been saying this stuff was coming since... beginning of summer last year.

The Camaro really only started getting into customer hands at the end of last fall. GM is working on stuff, as well as the afternarket. Give them time to develop.

Sorry not true, cj pony and American muscle had several aftermarket parts ready to go before the 2015 Mustang hit dealerships. Sorry number 3 you are so far out of touch saying it's a small number of people modding, it's a big selling point where I live and you might want to look on you tube. Yes a major amount of people would pay 1500 just to get a small amount horsepower and most of them don't even care about the horsepower it's about the look. It's like I said before GM and the aftermarket companies for Camaro's are only concern for the SS. This is why people who are in the market for the 4cycl, v6
Sport cars turn to the Mustang over the Camaro they are the ones looking to mod right away.

[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I think that this is not an apples to apples comparison. Every comparison test report has simply stated that the GT is not in the same class as the Gen6 SS. Frankly the competition now is with the M4, S5, base Caymen or maybe even the F-Type. Frankly, there is some evidence (yep there are those comparisons, too) where the new Gen6 does well against the base 911 - little turbo, since they are all turbos now.

You have an American sports coupe that compares very well against the very best the world has to offer. The price of $45K-$50K is an extreme bargain, in this group.

If you want a higher quality interior, lengthy list of standard features, blistering straight line performance and truly world class handling, then your choices would be M4 (80K), S5 (55K less HP), F-Type S ($80K) 911 ($85K) or the SS-2SS at $47K.

Those are the cars that were in my consideration when I picked the SS. I looked at the GT, but it really wasn't in the same class.

These were the marks that GM was aiming for.

Yeah I get what you are saying... I tried my best to not put the 5.0 down since I do like S550 but compare it to my SS.. the power, handling is not close. 3.73 gears 5.0 PP may feel close but the torque of the LT1 is still too much.. All 3 power packs won't get the 5.0 to beat a stock SS IMO but I could be wrong as well since I haven't driven it with the tunes.

I'm just speaking from experience since I have owned both platforms.

The big advantage the 5.0 has is a cheaper price and a huge aftermarket support.

There's no other car in the world that can beat the performance aspect of the SS for 40k from factory. Peroid.

I will add.. if it wasn't for the 6th Gen, I would be in the S550 5.0 right now.. and then the Scat 6.4.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by craz8

Maybe to get around emissions requirements. I know the non-OEM tunes, for example, will often not pass emissions tests. Also you can promise 15HP here and there all you want, but the costs add up more than do the claims.

The Ford Racing tunes are 50-state legal, complete with the underhood decal, which sets them apart from most of the aftermarket. I did do my research on this matter, before even ordering my '08.


Norm

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

Yeah I get what you are saying... I tried my best to not put the 5.0 down since I do like S550 but compare it to my SS.. the power, handling is not close. 3.73 gears 5.0 PP may feel close but the torque of the LT1 is still too much.. All 3 power packs won't get the 5.0 to beat a stock SS IMO but I could be wrong as well since I haven't driven it with the tunes.

I'm just speaking from experience since I have owned both platforms.

The big advantage the 5.0 has is a cheaper price and a huge aftermarket support.

There's no other car in the world that can beat the performance aspect of the SS for 40k from factory. Peroid.

I will add.. if it wasn't for the 6th Gen, I would be in the S550 5.0 right now.. and then the Scat 6.4.

The comparison is how does the SS sell against the M4 or 911? What is the profit (we'll never know those numbers) per unit. GM moved upscale. That was a choice made by some pretty smart people. Fewer units, but higher quality and higher profit per unit is a strategy. Jaguar sells a few thousand vehicles a year, in the US. They are profitable with the strategy.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Sort of.

GM (and Ford and everybody else) is going to set things conservatively on the regular production side of the business, and that conservatism would fall under "internal requirements" protecting them from most combinations of parts that are just barely within tolerance and the car owner against excessive "check engine" occurrences.

Ford's performance package tunes are developed by many of the same people who are involved in the regular production calibration. They are conservative relative to most aftermarket tunes, but in exchange for that they tend to have better drivability. Throttle tip-in response perhaps isn't what a street racer would prefer, but it sure is smooth for autocross and road course duty.

I suspect that the tunes that first show up through the Ford Racing (or whatever they're calling it these days) are much the same as what later shows up on the regular production side. Back in 2008, the FRPP cold air & tune package claimed essentially the same power and torque increases that would line up with what the limited edition Bullitt package got (and IIRC what the regular production GT's finally got in 2010). Beta-testing with only minor tweaks differentiating these three, maybe? I'd even be willing to bet that the 2008 FRPP tune itself was based on a previous FRPP tune and what the 2007 Mustang Shelby GT (not GT500) came with.

I can't speak for calibration aspects related to automatics, or to the supercharger packages. Not my thing, either of them.


Norm

I don't disagree. Calibrations are set to ensure ALL engines are reliable, durable and meet FE and Emissions standards. To calibrate to the limit would result in engines that don't meet these standards.

OEMs have to statistically ensure that every engine delivers on specifically the government required specs of FE and Emissions. FE is false advertising and leads to paying customers (i.e. recent SUV issue) or Emissions (just think VW). Durability and reliability are simply higher expenses.

As I suggested, there is this fun thing called stress - strength interference that explains this pretty well.

Making more HP is generally results in higher cylinder pressures pushing on the pistons. These higher loads increase "stress" on the pistons, rings, bearings etc. Any given engine a customer loads this calibration into has parts that can handle a certain amount of stress. In many cases of high performance cars the strength of these parts are nominally higher than standard. Any increase in stress to the system will automatically lead to a higher statistical failure rate. And that is why these calibrations from Ford will likely cost enough to offset the higher warranty repairs.

So the issue isn't that Ford developed them, it's simply that they are counting on the fact that most people will still be "average" users and there will be little impact. But the failure rates will be higher so the warranty costs will be higher and the costs for these factory calibrations will cover that.

The big thing is a customer can do this AND have the confidence of warranty and meeting emissions standards.

And I do wish GM would do this.