[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by hangover

Ive been saying this since day one... its plainly obvious:

Looks barely different
Waaaay overpriced - its still a camaro!
ZERO rear seat leg room for my kids
Visibility stinks

Give me the "slow" 0-60 in 4.5s 33k GT Premium every day.

You can have the GT right now, go get it.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

I think people were expecting more of the C7 type treatment. Better tech, better performance, better interior, and state of the art styling, for basically the same outgoing price of the C6. The C7 seemed to have been able to absorb the improvement costs, the camaro not so much.

The C7 was selling over sticker the first year it was produced, and then there was a price increase. The exterior styling of the Gen6 Camaro was not as noticeable as the C7, but the car was completely changed.

The Camaro is an excellent performer and worth every penny. You'll never know how great the car is if you never own one.

[Tmcbigblue]

I believe one of the main reasons they aren't selling so well is most people other than people who read car magazines don't even know there is a new model. I drove a 15 mustang gt performance pack car before I bought my 1ss and it's nice but not in the same league as my Camaro. The Camaro is a little more expensive but you don't have to buy one totally loaded. Totally loaded up mustangs are high as well. I got my 1ss 6speed npp car for $36,000. I think I got a killer deal. You do not pay msrp on new cars. I go by what the cars are selling for and not msrp. I've seen 2ss cars discounted as much as $5000. These cars are a true value for what they are!

[SpeedIsLife]

The C7's MSRP jumped nearly $5,000 in under two years. I doubt severely that the Camaro will see even close to the same jump. However it would not surprise me if the average yearly jump is around $500

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by hangover

Ive been saying this since day one... its plainly obvious:

Looks barely different
Waaaay overpriced - its still a camaro!
ZERO rear seat leg room for my kids
Visibility stinks

Give me the "slow" 0-60 in 4.5s 33k GT Premium every day.

$33K for a 2016 Mustang GT Premium? You better snap that up! And have you tried sitting in the back of a Mustang? I'm 5'10 and don't fit in the back seats in either car. I honestly think they should both save a bit more weight and just put a storage shelf back there and a seat delete.

Rather than make statements or guesses I just went out to TrueCar to build and price both a 2016 Mustang GT and a 2016 Camaro 2SS. I optioned both to as close as I could get (down to the stripe) to see what the real price would be.

MSRP was within $2K with the Camaro being the more expensive, but the Camaro included magnetic ride control, dual mode performance exhaust, and an 8 speed automatic. NONE of which are available for the Mustang. Magnetic ride control a lone is a $1700ish option.

Step down to a no option 1SS and you're at $37K MSRP with an average price according to TrueCar of $36K. The no option 1SS comes with 20" wheels, the base GT comes with 18s by the way according to TC.

A base model GT Premium with NOTHING has a MSRP of $37K and a true car price of about $35K so if you got a $33K offer get it.

I have to wonder how many of these sales figures are fleet sales? Do they separate that in these numbers? Mustangs are all over rental lots and I don't think there are any Camaros yet. Could make a significant difference but that's just a theory.

I used Truecar because it was quick and easy, no idea how accurate the "value" dollars are, but even at MSRP these cars are very close in price when optioned similarly as others have mentioned.

If $2000 on a $40,000 purchase is going to break the bank or make the difference in which car you buy, I'd recommend saving your pennies a bit longer and getting the one you actually like the best.

[merlin803]

Some people just want the cheapest cereal that they can find and will buy the Wal-mart 'Great Value' branded cereal.

That is fine, if your bottom line is the price and not value or what cereal actually tastes best then have at it.

Wal-mart may be the top retail company in the country, that doesn't make it the best though.

People can give every reason that they think is the cause of lower sales than they expect, from not having a clothes hook in the back seat, "looking too much like a 5th Gen", "not looking enough like a 5th Gen".....to whatever but I think the bottom line for a lot of people complaining is they want the best cereal but they also want it to be the cheapest cereal.

Thought I would just throw out a slightly different perspective since these monthly threads tend to rehash the same thing over and over

[Speedy1975]

Man it's a good thing I don't eat cereal! LOL

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Some people just want the cheapest cereal that they can find and will buy the Wal-mart 'Great Value' branded cereal.

That is fine, if your bottom line is the price and not value or what cereal actually tastes best then have at it.

Wal-mart may be the top retail company in the country, that doesn't make it the best though.

People can give every reason that they think is the cause of lower sales than they expect, from not having a clothes hook in the back seat, "looking too much like a 5th Gen", "not looking enough like a 5th Gen".....to whatever but I think the bottom line for a lot of people complaining is they want the best cereal but they also want it to be the cheapest cereal.

Thought I would just throw out a slightly different perspective since these monthly threads tend to rehash the same thing over and over

wait, there's no clothes hook?

THAT'S IT!!! WHAT A POS!!!!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Tmcbigblue

I believe one of the main reasons they aren't selling so well is most people other than people who read car magazines don't even know there is a new model. I drove a 15 mustang gt performance pack car before I bought my 1ss and it's nice but not in the same league as my Camaro. The Camaro is a little more expensive but you don't have to buy one totally loaded. Totally loaded up mustangs are high as well. I got my 1ss 6speed npp car for $36,000. I think I got a killer deal. You do not pay msrp on new cars. I go by what the cars are selling for and not msrp. I've seen 2ss cars discounted as much as $5000. These cars are a true value for what they are!

$5,000 off sticker on a 2SS is either a Demo or the dealer is kindly losing money. That is well below dealer cost for an SS.

[EricTheCamaroGuy]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

C'mon people, I did my part.

I agree the pricing is higher than I would like but if you really perform the analysis comparisons there is nothing that truly compares for the money. The Camaro SS is being compared to BMW M4s and the like now. It drives like a Corvette Stingray and costs $20k less, how can you beat it? As for the actual sales numbers, as it has been discussed before we don't know the profit structure on the Camaro so just because they are selling fewer cars that doesn't mean they are turning a healthy profit.

Taking the Camaro upmarket usually means lower overall sales but higher profits. I was just comparing a Camaro 2SS to an Audi RS5. The Camaro edges it out in performance and the base Audi RS5 starts at $72k. The challenge you run into when you creep into that $45-50k range is that you start to reach the buyers who are willing to pay for status brands. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. These status brands also lease out much better that a Camaro. A loaded Camaro 2SS with $0 down is gonna lease out around $600 or more per month. You could lease many luxury sports coupes/sedans with decent performance for $100-200 less per month.

So, the question is what type of buyer actually buys the Camaro? I think the old school muscle car enthusiasts are probably buying the Challengers. They have that big over the top presence when rolling down the road, shaker hoods and great retro looks. Some may argue it is more practical but c'mon no one buys any of these cars for practicality. The Camaro buyer is someone who appreciates the lines of a sportier coupe as well as lighter weight and better handling. IMO, the Mustang appeals to a wider range folks. It strikes a pretty good balance of styling and performance for the non-enthusiast. If a true enthusiast really compares the Mustang GT and Camaro SS it will be glaringly obvious that the Camaro offers a lot more.

For example, the Camaro SS comes with bigger wheels and includes expensive run-flat tires, NPP and MRC options, quick shifting A8 auto or a rev-matching Tremec 6 speed vs. not very well received MT82 manual. The Camaro gets the LT1 engine with direct injection technology making more hp and tq across the entire rpm range. Inside, you get HUD with g-meter, Nav system that can integrate with display and HUD, ventilated leather seats, WiFi LTE, wireless phone charger, blah, blah.

C'mon folks go test drive one. You will love it.

The other day I sat in an RS5 convertible (I put the roof up) and coupe, both of them have more rear seat room than a Camaro by far. The moonroof in the RS5 coupe only vents, it doesn't slide. The second gen A5/S5 is coming out very soon, plus the one I was in was a 2007 design. I like all the stuff in the Camaro that is listed, and some of that is in the RS5. Funny thing was I noticed that the convertible has LED done lights literally built into the convertible roof.

[SpeedIsLife]

I think the idea that of you're an enthusiast you would naturally go with a Camaro is a bit ...overstated. The Mustang is a great starting point for customization and has all the necessary support in the aftermarket.

The Camaro is fantastic, but it's not the only, or necessarily the best choice for an enthusiast.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think the idea that of you're an enthusiast you would naturally go with a Camaro is a bit ...overstated. The Mustang is a great starting point for customization and has all the necessary support in the aftermarket.

The Camaro is fantastic, but it's not the only, or necessarily the best choice for an enthusiast.

Apple vs. Android. Android users will go on and on about how their device and software is superior. And on paper in many regards it is. But Apple remains, how shall we say.................extremely profitable.

Just because you are the best in one attribute, in this case performance, doesn't mean you win the sales battle. Performance is one of the few objective measures in a car purchase. Looks, how it makes you feel, how you think it makes others feel about you are among the many subjective elements of a car purchase.

If the Camaro were the best performing ANNNND lowest cost, it still wouldn't get all the sales. Certainly more though. If it had the best performance AND the lowest cost ANNNNND was the better coupe for back seat, trunk use, visibility (insert your own) it would likely be winning the sales war, but as we've seen over the years, people will still buy a Mustang, regardless of how poor it compares, just because it's a Ford.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

$33K for a 2016 Mustang GT Premium? You better snap that up! And have you tried sitting in the back of a Mustang? I'm 5'10 and don't fit in the back seats in either car. I honestly think they should both save a bit more weight and just put a storage shelf back there and a seat delete.

Rather than make statements or guesses I just went out to TrueCar to build and price both a 2016 Mustang GT and a 2016 Camaro 2SS. I optioned both to as close as I could get (down to the stripe) to see what the real price would be.

MSRP was within $2K with the Camaro being the more expensive, but the Camaro included magnetic ride control, dual mode performance exhaust, and an 8 speed automatic. NONE of which are available for the Mustang. Magnetic ride control a lone is a $1700ish option.

Step down to a no option 1SS and you're at $37K MSRP with an average price according to TrueCar of $36K. The no option 1SS comes with 20" wheels, the base GT comes with 18s by the way according to TC.

A base model GT Premium with NOTHING has a MSRP of $37K and a true car price of about $35K so if you got a $33K offer get it.

I have to wonder how many of these sales figures are fleet sales? Do they separate that in these numbers? Mustangs are all over rental lots and I don't think there are any Camaros yet. Could make a significant difference but that's just a theory.

I used Truecar because it was quick and easy, no idea how accurate the "value" dollars are, but even at MSRP these cars are very close in price when optioned similarly as others have mentioned.

If $2000 on a $40,000 purchase is going to break the bank or make the difference in which car you buy, I'd recommend saving your pennies a bit longer and getting the one you actually like the best.

Good points. If you compare apples to apples as much as you can on these cars you will see they are not that far apart pricewise. Not enough to matter anyway.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Some people just want the cheapest cereal that they can find and will buy the Wal-mart 'Great Value' branded cereal.

That is fine, if your bottom line is the price and not value or what cereal actually tastes best then have at it.

Wal-mart may be the top retail company in the country, that doesn't make it the best though.

People can give every reason that they think is the cause of lower sales than they expect, from not having a clothes hook in the back seat, "looking too much like a 5th Gen", "not looking enough like a 5th Gen".....to whatever but I think the bottom line for a lot of people complaining is they want the best cereal but they also want it to be the cheapest cereal.

Thought I would just throw out a slightly different perspective since these monthly threads tend to rehash the same thing over and over

Good analogy. Most of us are all saying the same thing, as we dissect the buying processes that take place when one purchases a car. I think the main point is if you truly like the Mustang or Challenger or whatever then that is fine but just don't be too quick to dismiss the Camaro based on price if you don't know what you are comparing. GM included a lot of content in these cars, which increases the cost a bit over the previous gen5 and Mustang. If folks are saying the Camaro SS is too expensive then what they are really saying is...

- I don't want that much performance.
- I don't want the lighter and better handling car.
- I don't value options like MRC and factory NPP exhaust.
- I don't care about 20" wheels with Goodyear run flats, 18" with Pirellis are good enough.
- I prefer a MT82 manual trans to a Tremec manual with active rev matching
- I prefer a 6 speed auto to a much more advanced quick shifting 8 speed from the corvette stingray.
- I prefer the Coyote 5.0 to the direct injected 6.2l LT1 producing more hp and significantly more torque.

Just naming some off the top of my head but if you are aware of differences and still don't care then you made and informed buying decision but if you just look at the price without determining why it costs more then you may just miss out on a great buy.