Monster Camaro Z/28 Reveals Itself on the Nurburgring! (Updated With First Video) - Page 37

shaffe · 05-13-2016, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven59

The ZL1 will probably take care of the GT350. Z/28 targeting the Viper?

I think some people need to dial their expectations back. the Z06/Z07 couldn't take down the Viper ACR. What makes you think a Camaro could?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

There used to be a fixed hierarchy in GM protecting the Corvette as King. That is no longer the case. TEAM Camaro has no restrictions placed on them to protect the Corvette. If TEAM Camaro can develop a faster Camaro, they are free to do so. That was clear when the 5th Gen Z/28 ran stunning times at the Ring. What holds TEAM Camaro back are sticker price and a back seat. Kudos to TEAM Camaro for pushing the limits on all levels to produce stunning performance numbers that rival the Corvette.

true while they might not protect the Corvette, it still is the Corvette. And the Corvette will still be the HALO of GM performance.

also while they might be able to build the best Camaro ever/possible there will be a limit they can push it to. At the end of the day, it is still going to be a Camaro, and I would bet there is certain dollar amount where people just wouldn't consider it

FenwickHockey65 · 05-13-2016, 01:44 PM

Just thinking out loud, the full size trucks are due for a new heavy-duty gas engine...

JusticePete · 05-13-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The hierarchy is still in place. Corvette dictates the engines developed and Camaro has to use those. The rest is irrelevant because Camaro will always weigh more and be slower. The Z/28 was still 15 seconds behind the Z06 around the Nurburgring. Even if the 7:32 lap time was true, that's 10 seconds between the two.

Weight, a back seat is not a corporate mandate to be slower or a hierarchy that mandates the Corvette be faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Does building a Z/28 meant to compete with the GT350R mean it can't be better in every way and the best Camaro possible?

Are you saying that unless TEAM Camaro follows the Ford model line up they are doing it wrong?

BoostedX2 · 05-13-2016, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Ford built the 5.2 Voodoo. The difference is they want to build that engine. Oh, and it's being put in a car that's substantially cheaper than the Z28 will be.

If this is a Z28, and it comes with the LT4, the reason is because that's all they had to use.

Agree...STILL don't understand why FORD can do it and GM can't or won't...GM Powertrain definitely has the ability to up the LT1 power and still meet emissions requirements...Unless hand built it will not have an astronomical production cost...a 2017 GT 350 with the HAND BUILT Voodoo engine MSRP is $56,495....

Jeffro19 · 05-13-2016, 02:02 PM

I have a feeling GM has something up there sleeve on this Z28 engine and is going to blow us away. Can't wait to find out.

Bhobbs · 05-13-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Weight, a back seat is not a corporate mandate to be slower or a hierarchy that mandates the Corvette be faster.

Are you saying that unless TEAM Camaro follows the Ford model line up they are doing it wrong?

No, weight isn't part of the hierarchy but being stuck with a 1.7 liter blower for hood clearance issues they don't face is.

Yes. Unless there is a good reason to not have a model that is competitive with the GT350R, then there should be and I don't consider an LT4 powered car to be competitive with the GT350R. It should be faster. It has 130 more horsepower.

JusticePete · 05-13-2016, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Just thinking out loud, the full size trucks are due for a new heavy-duty gas engine...

Interesting point.

JusticePete · 05-13-2016, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

No, weight isn't part of the hierarchy but being stuck with a 1.7 liter blower for hood clearance issues they don't face is.

Using an existing engine, sharing an engine across three different models or more isn't hierarchy. It is profitability.

bballr4567 · 05-13-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Ford built the 5.2 Voodoo. The difference is they want to build that engine. Oh, and it's being put in a car that's substantially cheaper than the Z28 will be.

If this is a Z28, and it comes with the LT4, the reason is because that's all they had to use.

Remember, its Camaro VS Everyone.

Look, guys, there is no reason to be all pissy. If GM wants to put a N/A motor in the Z/28 its going to happen. Just because it didn't meet the Z06 goals doesn't mean it wont be at the Z/28. Look at how many people are happy with the GT350 and Voodoo.

You act like making new heads/intake is a hard job for the team at GM to do. They likely went through thousands of CAD designs before they settled on the ones for the LT1 and they know what will work better to get more power.

With a limited edition/production model, CAFE really doesn't matter near as much. They will sell as many Silverado in a DAY as they will the Z/28 in the whole year.

2SSRS@Gen5diy · 05-13-2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Remember, its Camaro VS Everyone.

Look, guys, there is no reason to be all pissy. If GM wants to put a N/A motor in the Z/28 its going to happen. Just because it didn't meet the Z06 goals doesn't mean it wont be at the Z/28. Look at how many people are happy with the GT350 and Voodoo.

You act like making new heads/intake is a hard job for the team at GM to do. They likely went through thousands of CAD designs before they settled on the ones for the LT1 and they know what will work better to get more power.

With a limited edition/production model, CAFE really doesn't matter near as much. They will sell as many Silverado in a DAY as they will the Z/28 in the whole year.

Its more like 6 times but you got it, 500 trucks per shift per plant.

Bhobbs · 05-13-2016, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Using an existing engine, sharing an engine across three different models or more isn't hierarchy. It is profitability.

Fair enough, but they chose the smaller blower not for profitability but for the Corvette.

bballr4567 · 05-13-2016, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2SSRS@Gen5diy

Its more like 6 times but you got it, 500 trucks per shift per plant.

Huh?? The likely goal of the Z/28 is around 2k/year.

GM sold about 49000 Silverados last month. That's about 1650 trucks a day. That doesn't even count the Sierra, Colorado OR Canyon.

Raven87 · 05-13-2016, 02:34 PM

GM got caught flatfooted by the '13 GT500 when the '12 ZL1 came out bench-marked against the then '12 GT500 with 540 HP. Yes, the '12 ZL1 was light years ahead of the GT500 in most every respect - except horsepower (and headroom).

I don't think GM set the goals of the next ZL1 to be on par with or slightly better than the GT350 - I believe they want to smash them. And I'm sure this next car, be it a Z/28 or ZL1-R, will be even more and then some.

At least, that is what I hope. I would certainly want to believe that GM will not continue trying to catch up but for once, be the leader at the track and within its segment.

The new ZL1 and the next HiPo Camaro have absolutely got to grab their opponents by the throat and stand on their necks. It's definitely time.

JusticePete · 05-13-2016, 02:35 PM

It isn't building an new NA motor for the Z/28 that is so expensive. It is the validation process and emission certifications. The engine and complete drive-line have to be validated for the Z. If they choose to put it in a Vette or Caddy, the complete drive-line has to be certified all over again. A million here, a a couple million there, pretty soon we are talking real money :-)

05-13-2016, 01:44 PM	#506
FenwickHockey65 General Motors Aficionado Drives: 2023 GMC Canyon, 2023 Expedition Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 37,375 View My Garage	Just thinking out loud, the full size trucks are due for a new heavy-duty gas engine... __________________ 2023 GMC Canyon Elevation 2023 Ford Expedition SSV (State-Issued)

05-13-2016, 02:02 PM	#509
Jeffro19 Drives: 2018 ZL1 6M, Silverado High Country Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 2,101	I have a feeling GM has something up there sleeve on this Z28 engine and is going to blow us away. Can't wait to find out. __________________ Previous Camaro's - 2002 Z28 6 spd manual, T tops, Sebring Silver - 2010 2SS 6 spd manual, Cyber Gray Metallic Current Vehicles - 2018 ZL1 Red Hot 6 spd manual, Carbon Hood, Sunroof 2019 Silverado High Country, Daily Driver

05-13-2016, 02:34 PM	#517
Raven87 C'mon- really? Drives: Looking for a ZL1 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nortwestern Ohio Posts: 1,966 View My Garage	GM got caught flatfooted by the '13 GT500 when the '12 ZL1 came out bench-marked against the then '12 GT500 with 540 HP. Yes, the '12 ZL1 was light years ahead of the GT500 in most every respect - except horsepower (and headroom). I don't think GM set the goals of the next ZL1 to be on par with or slightly better than the GT350 - I believe they want to smash them. And I'm sure this next car, be it a Z/28 or ZL1-R, will be even more and then some. At least, that is what I hope. I would certainly want to believe that GM will not continue trying to catch up but for once, be the leader at the track and within its segment. The new ZL1 and the next HiPo Camaro have absolutely got to grab their opponents by the throat and stand on their necks. It's definitely time. __________________ Steve 2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE Black #3805 - SOLD

05-13-2016, 02:35 PM	#518
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	It isn't building an new NA motor for the Z/28 that is so expensive. It is the validation process and emission certifications. The engine and complete drive-line have to be validated for the Z. If they choose to put it in a Vette or Caddy, the complete drive-line has to be certified all over again. A million here, a a couple million there, pretty soon we are talking real money :-)

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