[HCT]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

All that marketing with little pay off. The Mustang is outselling the Challenger 2 or 3 to 1 with little advertising. The Camaro (with almost no advertising) continues to outsell it as well. And contrary to what some believe, the Hellcats (producing as many as they can) have resulted in the same yearly totals of the ZL1 and GT500 did in the past years.

You're partly correct: the Challenger's sales don't come close to Mustang or Camaro and never have.

But you're wrong to classify it as a failure. April was Challenger's 4th best month ever in the history of the model, which is stunning considering how old the platform and current design is.

Given that Dodge understands Challenger never comes close to sales of Mustang or Camaro, they initially forecast Hellcat production at commensurately lower levels. The cars were such a hit that they doubled production for '16 and can still barely keep up with demand. The fact that Hellcats are selling near ZL1/GT500 levels is a stunning victory for them, not a failure.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by HCT

You're partly correct: the Challenger's sales don't come close to Mustang or Camaro and never have.

But you're wrong to classify it as a failure. April was Challenger's 4th best month ever in the history of the model, which is stunning considering how old the platform and current design is.

Given that Dodge understands Challenger never comes close to sales of Mustang or Camaro, they initially forecast Hellcat production at commensurately lower levels. The cars were such a hit that they doubled production for '16 and can still barely keep up with demand. The fact that Hellcats are selling near ZL1/GT500 levels is a stunning victory for them, not a failure.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying the Hellcat is a failure, I'm saying that all the advertising they are doing isn't providing a return worth it. Media reviews of the Hellcat was all they needed and the reason demand exceeded capacity. The point of all the commercials/movie spots isn't to sell Hellcats, it's to sell Chargers and Challengers. And there hasn't been much of an uptick there. If anything one could say that all 3 (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) have seen upticks (compared to last year) simply due to market/gas conditions.

[HCT]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying the Hellcat is a failure, I'm saying that all the advertising they are doing isn't providing a return worth it. Media reviews of the Hellcat was all they needed and the reason demand exceeded capacity. The point of all the commercials/movie spots isn't to sell Hellcats, it's to sell Chargers and Challengers. And there hasn't been much of an uptick there. If anything one could say that all 3 (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) have seen upticks (compared to last year) simply due to market/gas conditions.

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding!

I'm not sure how you accurately measure the effectiveness of advertising. As you say, there are larger trends at work -- cheap gas and low interest rates have resulted in strong sales of big vehicles. But regardless, I'm sure the ad guys will surely claim credit!

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying the Hellcat is a failure, I'm saying that all the advertising they are doing isn't providing a return worth it. Media reviews of the Hellcat was all they needed and the reason demand exceeded capacity. The point of all the commercials/movie spots isn't to sell Hellcats, it's to sell Chargers and Challengers. And there hasn't been much of an uptick there. If anything one could say that all 3 (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) have seen upticks (compared to last year) simply due to market/gas conditions.

They've sold nearly every Hellcat they've produced..in fact the 2015 MY for the Hellcat actually sold out and they had to convert those sales over to 2016 with a voucher to get the cost down to 2015 levels.

If you look at the trend for the Challenger, it's always gone up, just not super fast. It's been a very consistent seller, I'd say the advertising has paid off. Is it selling 10,000 units a month? No, but for an old platform with half of the models producing less power than their rivals (the SXT and 5.7 R/T)...I'd say the Challenger has done very well.

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying the Hellcat is a failure, I'm saying that all the advertising they are doing isn't providing a return worth it. Media reviews of the Hellcat was all they needed and the reason demand exceeded capacity. The point of all the commercials/movie spots isn't to sell Hellcats, it's to sell Chargers and Challengers. And there hasn't been much of an uptick there. If anything one could say that all 3 (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) have seen upticks (compared to last year) simply due to market/gas conditions.

Again, not true. We don't know what their roi is from their marketing efforts. But I will venture to say that their sales numbers would be even lower had they not committed to plastering the charger all over every available media outlet. Just because it's not outselling the Camaro or Mustang doesn't make it a failure. Like Reese Bobby taught us, there's nothing wrong with 2nd or 3rd, or hell even 4th. There are quite a number of midsize sedans that ain't camrys that are profitable for their respective companies.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by HCT

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding!

I'm not sure how you accurately measure the effectiveness of advertising. As you say, there are larger trends at work -- cheap gas and low interest rates have resulted in strong sales of big vehicles. But regardless, I'm sure the ad guys will surely claim credit!

Indeed. Advertising guys always make out like they are solely responsible for sales, except those months when sales decline.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

They've sold nearly every Hellcat they've produced..in fact the 2015 MY for the Hellcat actually sold out and they had to convert those sales over to 2016 with a voucher to get the cost down to 2015 levels.

If you look at the trend for the Challenger, it's always gone up, just not super fast. It's been a very consistent seller, I'd say the advertising has paid off. Is it selling 10,000 units a month? No, but for an old platform with half of the models producing less power than their rivals (the SXT and 5.7 R/T)...I'd say the Challenger has done very well.

Again not talking about the Hellcat. But you can't say advertising has paid off when they just went through a major refresh at the same time. Technically the refresh, Hellcat, and more aggressive advertising campaign all hit about the same time. So one can't be solely responsible for the success over previous years. That was the point I was trying to make, that advertising these cars nets negligible increases. Look at the Camaro, look at the Mustang. Both sell better with less advertising at this point. So why people scream for Camaro ads, they accomplish little. GM knows this, Ford as well. Advertise deals on financing or rebates, that's more effective that a 30 sec TV add with burnouts and rock music. We all think it's cool of course, but doesn't make a difference in the end.

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Indeed. Advertising guys always make out like they are solely responsible for sales, except those months when sales decline.



Again not talking about the Hellcat. But you can't say advertising has paid off when they just went through a major refresh at the same time. Technically the refresh, Hellcat, and more aggressive advertising campaign all hit about the same time. So one can't be solely responsible for the success over previous years. That was the point I was trying to make, that advertising these cars nets negligible increases. Look at the Camaro, look at the Mustang. Both sell better with less advertising at this point. So why people scream for Camaro ads, they accomplish little. GM knows this, Ford as well. Advertise deals on financing or rebates, that's more effective that a 30 sec TV add with burnouts and rock music. We all think it's cool of course, but doesn't make a difference in the end.

You telling me you didn't get goosebumps when you first saw that challenger/charger/viper commercial with Phil Collins 'In the air tonight' playing in the background?

If I was in the market for a challenger, that commercial may have played a modest role. Lol

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

Again, not true. We don't know what their roi is from their marketing efforts. But I will venture to say that their sales numbers would be even lower had they not committed to plastering the charger all over every available media outlet. Just because it's not outselling the Camaro or Mustang doesn't make it a failure. Like Reese Bobby taught us, there's nothing wrong with 2nd or 3rd, or hell even 4th. There are quite a number of midsize sedans that ain't camrys that are profitable for their respective companies.

How many times has Chrylser have they been sold? Why were they sold? Why did GM go bankrupt? Why did the Camaro go out of production back in '02? Why is FCA desperately looking for someone to merge with? Why did the 200 and Dart get axed and now FCA will buy small cars to re-badge and sell? You cannot say that consistently being at the bottom is a healthy thing. I'm not saying they are doomed but we should not be looking at them as healthy automaker. Plain and simple the Charger sales keep the Challenger afloat, and there's enough profit in the cars since they bought tech/components from other manufacturers to keep it going for now. Eventually though that will catch up with them.

And since the refresh, Hellcat, and big advertising started, sales have average under 2000 more a month. You really think advertising was responsible for all that? You don't think gas prices lowering, combined with what is a worlds better interior/features/better hardware compared to MY14 cars isn't responsible for most of that sales increase?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

You telling me you didn't get goosebumps when you first saw that challenger/charger/viper commercial with Phil Collins 'In the air tonight' playing in the background?

If I was in the market for a challenger, that commercial may have played a modest role. Lol

Actually never seen it. That's problem with most of this advertising. Too regional or too specific to targeted plug ins. How many people DVR most of their shows now? They are going to fast forward through that stuff and never see it. I never knew there was some Mustang commercials until it was posted here. Most people now are not watching live TV. It's either on the internet or recorded shows.

Remember too, we are enthusiasts. We make up a tiny portion of sales because we like the Scat Packs, SS, GT, Hellcat, ZL1, etc... The overwhelming majority of sales are the V6s and now turbo 4s. We get excited over stuff like that. They get excited over just looks or that they can send a text message from the car (I'm simplifying things but you get the picture).

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

How many times has Chrylser have they been sold? Why were they sold? Why did GM go bankrupt? Why did the Camaro go out of production back in '02? Why is FCA desperately looking for someone to merge with? Why did the 200 and Dart get axed and now FCA will buy small cars to re-badge and sell? You cannot say that consistently being at the bottom is a healthy thing. I'm not saying they are doomed but we should not be looking at them as healthy automaker. Plain and simple the Charger sales keep the Challenger afloat, and there's enough profit in the cars since they bought tech/components from other manufacturers to keep it going for now. Eventually though that will catch up with them.

And since the refresh, Hellcat, and big advertising started, sales have average under 2000 more a month. You really think advertising was responsible for all that? You don't think gas prices lowering, combined with what is a worlds better interior/features/better hardware compared to MY14 cars isn't responsible for most of that sales increase?

They must have had some pretty bad months in the past to bring that average to 2,000 because last month they sold 6,412, which is only about 1,000 shy of what the camaro sold.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

They must have had some pretty bad months in the past to bring that average to 2,000 because last month they sold 6,412, which is only about 1,000 shy of what the camaro sold.

Increase over previous years. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by big dave

What I'm saying is there are just as many videos of hellcats beating z06s as the other way around. These two aren't even in the same category when it comes to power to weight. Yet, somehow, we've seen supposed stock hellcats pulling on vettes. Now I've seen stock z06s run 10s, but hellcats aren't far behind on drag radials. Either way, I'm hoping Chevy surprises us with a bit more power than originally revealed...at least more than the last gt500

I'm guessing your talking about "roll-racing" videos on YouTube. Roll-racing has too many variables for it to ever be considered as viable or believable. In "real" testing using scientific methods, the same driver - same day - same track, both cars stock and well prepared, there is NO way the HC comes out on top.

[clanky]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I would love to see GM market the new car heavily. How many Camaro commercials do you see? How many have you EVER seen for the Chevy SS?

Ridiculous.

I didn't even know the Chevy SS existed for a long time, never saw em driving and never looked for them online or on the lot. Chevy really needs a kick in the pants in the marketing department at least for cars... and cool cars especially.

[bluHawk141]

I agree, I saw one Chevy SS, just a fees ago. I thought it was a new Impala driving by, but I heard a v8 rumble. Then I thought to myself, maybe I mistook the Chevy badge for some foreign car. Then I saw the car again and finally it clicked, that's an SS. What's kinda ironic is I deal with the Caprices on a daily basis. Just not used to seeing a civilian version driving around.