[HCT]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Also bear in mind when discussing weight....the Hellcat engine uses a behemoth twin-screw supercharger, and a thicker-webbed cast-iron block...That sucker is HEAVY.

Drop weight in the chassis and use that engine, it's going to handle even worse...

First, let's dismiss the whole idea of them chopping significant weight from the existing chassis. That simply isn't feasible. That's why you only see big weight savings when a car moves to a new platform.

For Dodge, that platform is the one they're using for the new Alfa Romeo Giulia. The plan was supposed to be to introduce the new cars late in '17 as '18 models, but I've heard rumors the project is hitting delays so who knows.

Dodge is mum on this but I expect when they get the new platform they'll move to newer architecture, turbo engines and continue using the Hellcat motors only in larger vehicles like the Grand Cherokee (not announced yet but it's an open secret they've been working on it for a while).

[clanky]

Originally Posted by crabman

I recall when we thought performance was dead and we could see no better days on the horizon. Now people are dissing a car with 700 hp off the lots and doing it with a straight face. If I'd of said this would happen in a bench racing session 40 years ago people would have blew beer through their nose laughing.

I'm glad I lived long enough to see these days.

HAHA ya should of heard me telling some older friends about the hellcat coming out with 707 HP so many of them in denial calling BS a while back. Good era to see the cars go through lots of changes!

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by *007

Biased much? "overweight chassis still to be considered as viable competition". Competition in what regard I wonder. I sense a little "denial" of the truth here. And context.

GM building the ZL1 on an aging Australian chassis and marketing it as the highest HP Camaro ever is about the same thing.

Then came the reality and the ZL1 was "so so" at the strip and track and noted for its bloat. Looks like the aging chassis on the Hellcat beat the aging chassis of the ZL1 at the strip and lives up to it's marketing hype (ploy?).

Now we go to the next round from both camps. Just trying to keep a little modicum of truthful perspective.

One thing Dodge did was have the actual guts to let the Challenger have more muscle than the Viper.

2015 Dodge Viper SRT
In 2015, the SRT brand was eliminated and the Viper was renamed the Dodge Viper SRT. In 2015, the V10 received an extra 5 hp raising the output to 645 hp and the highway mpg improved to 20mpg.

When will GM allow ZL1 to get a powerplant = > than Corvette? Would that be a "ploy" too?

NO, no bias. Stating a fact. What else could they do for it to have so much press? As I said great strategy. BTW, I didn't bring up any particular competitor. And yes I'll agree (now that you brought it up) that Chevy did the same thing with the 5gen Camaro. So what's your point???

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Hellcat is/was nothing more than a swan song and bragging rights. So was the Z/28, except Dodge chose to produce a dyno queen/drag strip hero...while Chevrolet chose to build a track weapon. But both cars were built to be expensive, low volume, "because we can" vehicles.

These companies know that they need to make the news to stay in it...and how can you ignore 707 factory horsepower? As an added bonus...it makes it very easy to ignore the rest of the car that engine is bolted to....

[Raven87]

I don't think the current HC (or any other currently produced performance car) is the manufacturer's swan song. While the cafe standards, etc, may cause some issues, performance sells and sells well right now. Until something changes that should continue for the foreseeable future.

The HC - especially an auto in the hands of a competent driver - is a seriously challenging competitor. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being delusional.

If it wasn't for the ridiculous markup, I would have had one by now. I'm just waiting for a good low mileage used one to land near me.

[RuthleSSchevy]

My co worker just bought a new Hellcat charger. I challenged him to a 1/4 run at a local track. The Gen6 SS M6 Vs HellCat Charger.....in 500hp mode What do you guys think?

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by RuthleSSchevy

My co worker just bought a new Hellcat charger. I challenged him to a 1/4 run at a local track. The Gen6 SS M6 Vs HellCat Charger.....in 500hp mode What do you guys think?

In 500hp i still think it would be a close race. Let us know.

[Heavymetal454]

Originally Posted by RuthleSSchevy

My co worker just bought a new Hellcat charger. I challenged him to a 1/4 run at a local track. The Gen6 SS M6 Vs HellCat Charger.....in 500hp mode What do you guys think?

Races are often won and lost at the tree. Too much tire spin and his chances go up in smoke. Just sayin! Bet with your head, not over it.

[RuthleSSchevy]

Weather here sucks right now and so does the forecast. Its just for fun, hes not exactly a driver so who knows if he will accept. He just picked it up brought the car in today. Black on Black with all seasons from the factory.

[*007]

Dodge only claims it is a "muscle car".. not a track star. So there is no doubt, weight or no weight, they own the title for muscle car hero... just like the 426 hemi did back in the 60's. I don't believe many expect the HC to be a track car, nor did its makers. It's a one trick STALLION .. not pony. It is ICONIC just because of the strip performance. Hey, did you know you can even fit a full size spare tire, luggage for three and two subwoofers and an electric tire pump AND the battery inside that trunk (of the challenger). And still run strip duty at the track with slicks in the 10's? The suspension is no track hero, but has enough of a setup to be super reliable and give confidence to any driver on a legal road. So, it did what it's designers intended. No one saw it coming either. That's what fascinates me.

Now with what GM knows is out there...
Why don't they just try to WIN it dammit. WIN. Don't accept not WINNING and claim they put certain lightweight nuts and bolts together somewhere and thusly claim "We are the overall champ".... OK.

Sounds kinda similar to Trump getting the popular vote by droves but getting an election stolen by rigged delegate counts. ... FMC spanked alot of people and lets see who wakes up. Just my observation. I like track ability and performance too, but it kind of comes down to the same as what is your favorite... NHRA or NASCAR? Some fans cross over, but the loyalties are hard to break. GM is close (670 hp) to being able to get the NHRA crown too ---- with the ZL1 ---- IF it wants to. Does it?

[*007]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

NO, no bias. Stating a fact. What else could they do for it to have so much press? As I said great strategy. BTW, I didn't bring up any particular competitor. And yes I'll agree (now that you brought it up) that Chevy did the same thing with the 5gen Camaro. So what's your point???

The so called aging platform is STILL COMPETITIVE is my point in contradiction to what you said. At least for the purpose for which it was meant to compete! You agree don't you...??

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by *007

Dodge only claims it is a "muscle car".. not a track star. So there is no doubt, weight or no weight, they own the title for muscle car hero... just like the 426 hemi did back in the 60's. I don't believe many expect the HC to be a track car, nor did its makers. It's a one trick STALLION .. not pony. It is ICONIC just because of the strip performance. Hey, did you know you can even fit a full size spare tire, luggage for three and two subwoofers and an electric tire pump AND the battery inside that trunk (of the challenger). And still run strip duty at the track with slicks in the 10's? The suspension is no track hero, but has enough of a setup to be super reliable and give confidence to any driver on a legal road. So, it did what it's designers intended. No one saw it coming either. That's what fascinates me.

Now with what GM knows is out there...
Why don't they just try to WIN it dammit. WIN. Don't accept not WINNING and claim they put certain lightweight nuts and bolts together somewhere and thusly claim "We are the overall champ".... OK.

Sounds kinda similar to Trump getting the popular vote by droves but getting an election stolen by rigged delegate counts. ... FMC spanked alot of people and lets see who wakes up. Just my observation. I like track ability and performance too, but it kind of comes down to the same as what is your favorite... NHRA or NASCAR? Some fans cross over, but the loyalties are hard to break. GM is close (670 hp) to being able to get the NHRA crown too ---- with the ZL1 ---- IF it wants to. Does it?

What do you mean nobody saw it coming? It had been talked about for a loooong time, similar to the voodoo. As with both, I was starting to doubt the rumors after a while that it would see production. But it was not surprising one bit though.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by *007

The so called aging platform is STILL COMPETITIVE is my point in contradiction to what you said. At least for the purpose for which it was meant to compete! You agree don't you...??

You're welcome to read my original post for your answer.

[*007]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

You're welcome to read my original post for your answer.

politician's answer..... indirect.