[Raven87]

Originally Posted by ilirg

The Hellcat doesn't need more power, it needs to be more efficient at putting the power to the pavement and and lose a bunch of weight, if they can do that, it will be pretty much unstoppable.

^^^THIS^^^

Just imagine the HC if Dodge figures out a way for it to drop even 200-300 lbs and puts bigger/better tires on the back.

Wow.

[2cnd chance]

The HC was/is a "great" marketing ploy by Dodge/Fiat for an aging overweight chassis to still be considered as viable competition.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Raven87

^^^THIS^^^

Just imagine the HC if Dodge figures out a way for it to drop even 200-300 lbs and puts bigger/better tires on the back.

Wow.

Yes if the next gen challenger can drop some serious weight and have some fatter tires it would a different car. It's quick already can't imagine less weight and superior tires

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Raven87

^^^THIS^^^

Just imagine the HC if Dodge figures out a way for it to drop even 200-300 lbs and puts bigger/better tires on the back.

Wow.

Unfortunately wishes are just that. To get that kind of weight loss would require a completely new chassis (which they obviously don't have the money for) but more importantly would kill one of those big reasons people choose the Challenger/Charger....size.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The HC was/is a "great" marketing ploy by Dodge/Fiat for an aging overweight chassis to still be considered as viable competition.

Agree. They also hit a nice void in the market with the GT500 gone and the ZL1 old and on the way out

[crabman]

I recall when we thought performance was dead and we could see no better days on the horizon. Now people are dissing a car with 700 hp off the lots and doing it with a straight face. If I'd of said this would happen in a bench racing session 40 years ago people would have blew beer through their nose laughing.

I'm glad I lived long enough to see these days.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by Raven87

^^^THIS^^^

Just imagine the HC if Dodge figures out a way for it to drop even 200-300 lbs and puts bigger/better tires on the back.

Wow.

Add in a beefier drive shaft.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Unfortunately wishes are just that. To get that kind of weight loss would require a completely new chassis (which they obviously don't have the money for) but more importantly would kill one of those big reasons people choose the Challenger/Charger....size.

I would not rule that out but who knows. Dodge was innovative enough to bring out the Hellcat in its current form, I don't think they will stop there with the current version.

It's a great time to be a car enthusiast.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

Add in a beefier drive shaft.

Definitely.

[*007]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The HC was/is a "great" marketing ploy by Dodge/Fiat for an aging overweight chassis to still be considered as viable competition.

Biased much? "overweight chassis still to be considered as viable competition". Competition in what regard I wonder. I sense a little "denial" of the truth here. And context.

GM building the ZL1 on an aging Australian chassis and marketing it as the highest HP Camaro ever is about the same thing.

Then came the reality and the ZL1 was "so so" at the strip and track and noted for its bloat. Looks like the aging chassis on the Hellcat beat the aging chassis of the ZL1 at the strip and lives up to it's marketing hype (ploy?).

Now we go to the next round from both camps. Just trying to keep a little modicum of truthful perspective.

One thing Dodge did was have the actual guts to let the Challenger have more muscle than the Viper.

2015 Dodge Viper SRT
In 2015, the SRT brand was eliminated and the Viper was renamed the Dodge Viper SRT. In 2015, the V10 received an extra 5 hp raising the output to 645 hp and the highway mpg improved to 20mpg.

When will GM allow ZL1 to get a powerplant = > than Corvette? Would that be a "ploy" too?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by *007

GM building the ZL1 on an aging Australian chassis and marketing it as the highest HP Camaro ever is about the same thing.

Then came the reality and the ZL1 was "so so" at the strip and track and noted for its bloat.

LX dates back to 2005 (earlier if you consider it's MB roots), Zeta was first used by Holden in 2006. So It's not as "aging" as compared to the LX. And more importantly the Camaro only used Zeta for 5 years, the Challenger/Charger has been on LX for 11 years with no viable replacement yet.

I don't remember the ZL1 being so so at the track. It bested many cars with twice the cost or 100+hp more. It paved the way for the best track package on any of the pony cars, the 1LE. At the strip, well let's remember the ZL1 countered the older GT500 well but Ford quickly responded which took the wind of the sails so to speak.

I do recall the Hellcat being beat at the track by it's 200hp short Scat Pack sibling. But I don't believe for a second Dodge ever intended the car to be more than a high power cruiser. For one it would have raised the cost of the car substantially to improve to a level to compete with the older ZL1 on a road course. Which would have ruined what really was the genius of the car, price. Dodge read the segment well. There are many buyers who wanted a car with all the power but who could care less if the car can actually use it. They want to take it to the strip or run it down the highway. And the Hellcat was perfectly suited to them. More power to them and enjoy it while it lasts. FCA has been avoiding long term technology development for some time. It has already spelled the demise of their small cars. How long before the others see a similar fate.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Hellcat is/was nothing more than a swan song and bragging rights. So was the Z/28, except Dodge chose to produce a dyno queen/drag strip hero...while Chevrolet chose to build a track weapon. But both cars were built to be expensive, low volume, "because we can" vehicles.

These companies know that they need to make the news to stay in it...and how can you ignore 707 factory horsepower? As an added bonus...it makes it very easy to ignore the rest of the car that engine is bolted to....

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I would not rule that out but who knows. Dodge was innovative enough to bring out the Hellcat in its current form, I don't think they will stop there with the current version.

It's a great time to be a car enthusiast.

Really don't consider adding a big S/C being that innovative. Ford had done it, then GM, then Ford made a massive jump in power, then Dodge responded. The work they did to get it to pass emissions, yes. But that's besides the point. The only way to drop weight is to use advanced materials extensively (which is prohibitively expensive) or to start with a new chassis designed to save weight, exactly like Alpha.

I hope FCA is saving money to adapt a version of Giulia as a replacement but I have a feeling they have cash flow problems preventing this. If that's the case we will probably see no major improvements until FCA can get fix the situation. Considering they had to dial down the power to pass emissions for the current Hellcat, I see no power increase unless they switch to DI to pass emissions. That to me is the most likely scenario since DI would pay off for their entire line of V8s.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Also bear in mind when discussing weight....the Hellcat engine uses a behemoth twin-screw supercharger, and a thicker-webbed cast-iron block...That sucker is HEAVY.

Drop weight in the chassis and use that engine, it's going to handle even worse...