[HomeBrewer]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree with you more.
The choice to make the 2016 Camaro look like the 2010 Camaro, at the expense of visibility and safety is one of the most stupid decisions I have every heard. I told that to the designer's face myself.

That's nothing compared to buying it that way, and then trolling about it like GM is going to change the Camaro design.

And, the visibility absolutely IS a safety issue, as much as you want to lie to yourself.

Have you tried selling the car before you get yourself hurt? Maybe you can get some sucker to buy it from you, provided you haven't run it into a wall or something because of all the blind spots you didn't notice until you were stuck with it.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

I just don't get it... Simple mirror adjustments eliminate all blind spots. Sure you have to get use to not being able to see the curb, but your statements sound crazy. I posted this before, but here is how I feel about it.

Also, you can't tell me I am in denial based on my subjective feedback on how I drive a car. I have no issue seeing cars coming up on me on the side of me etc. that isn't denial, that is fact from the way I drive the car. Now on the flip side, you may have issues and that is subjective to you... That doesn't mean everyone else has this problem or that it is fact everyone has this problem.

I think Number 3's post awhile back was spot on, but again it's comparative with tools vs. how people feel in the car. Sure numbers show the green house is smaller than the average car, but does that mean the visibility is shit to everyone? Nope. Again subjective. While the numbers or tools he speaks of are truth in regards to the visibility being less by the numbers, it doesn't mean the car has a visibility problem to every single person who drives it.

For him to come on here and spout that as truth/fact for anyone who sits and drives this car is a joke.

Just watched your video and you did a good job of describing the visibility and being objective.

I just don't get it, adjust your mirrors use the tools provided to you and know how to be aware of your surroundings like you should do when driving any car and it just isn't an issue.

I am a big guy (6'2 270) so maybe it is shorter people or people who are a little claustrophobic that have issues? Like you said though, there are many adjustments that you can make to compensate if it is being shorter.

My wife is short and she doesn't have a problem

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 90503

When this Gen first debuted, I was among those who were disappointed that it was a evolutionary design and should have been a revolutionary design.

Am I continuing to rant about it now? No, because what's the point? The die is cast for the 6thGen design, literally and figuratively....I have since come to believe that the 6thGen is still a great car, vastly improved over the 5thGen (which I own one.)

I put myself into the "this is it, take it or leave it" category. I have seen them up close and may one day pull the trigger. Visibililty in the Camaro is not a deal breaker, nor is the evolutionary design.

Hoping for a model to improve is one thing. Ranting over a major design feature that will be locked in for several years will not result in a knee-jerk reaction by GM for those who don't like it. I think Camaro and GM will take their chances with the Camaro as is for the very foreseeable future.

By the way, these arguments about visibility are nowhere near as prevelant as the posts were against the 5thGen refresh....And amazingly enough, GM didn't change anything to make the vocal minority happy.

Agree. I wanted revolutionary or 1970 inspired. It is what it is. That said, the level of performance far exceeded my expectations and if it were on par with the Mustang I wouldn't be buying. Fact is that from a enthusiast point of view the car is amazing and the interior is gravy.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

You're right. I am being EQUALLY dismissive with fan boys who are trying to be dismissive of a legitimate, and well documented, visibility issue with OUR car.
It's not ME that is right.
It's the entire automotive industry that justifiably criticizes the documented poor visibility.
Anyone who tries to dismiss the well documented visibility issue recognized by the entire auto industry is the definition of a fan boi.
And, this is coming from a 2016 Camaro SS owner, and a admitted GM fan.

you spent ~45k on a car and then cry like a little girl that you're unhappy with your decision?

[meb91]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree with you more.
The choice to make the 2016 Camaro look like the 2010 Camaro, at the expense of visibility and safety is one of the most stupid decisions I have every heard. I told that to the designer's face myself.

And, the visibility absolutely IS a safety issue, as much as you want to lie to yourself.

Again, you're making a big deal out of nothing. No one here is "lying," we are making a legitimate observation that we do not find our cars to have an unsafe design. I will ask the question again since you still haven't answered it: if it's such a safety issue, why haven't we all been crashing our cars? How was I able to successfully change lanes on a crowded freeway this morning without causing a wreck? Do I have superhuman driving abilities? Maybe I used the Force to sense the cars around me... who knows!

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

Like I said, multiple times, the blind spots became more apparent the more I drive the car.
I agree with 2 of your points.
I also am extrememly happy with the performance, and a "revolutionary design" should have been chosen instead of a rehashed 2010 Camaro design.

Cry? Little girl? I'll just ignore what you won't say to people's faces.

Well he is speaking the truth. You really are crying like a little girl.

Like I said, if you're that scared you need to stop driving because YOU, not your car, are a danger to the general driving public.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

Do you guys even read posts, or do you just post without reading?
I've been daily driving sports cars for 3 decades. Corvette, Camaro, etc.
I'm not retarded. I know how to properly set my mirrors. I would argue that most Camaro buyers do as well.

No one is having an issue with reading what you are saying, you just are unable or unwilling to accept that it just is not an issue for some people.

It is like you think that it is just not possible that others are not having issues....

Watch that video and please point out where that evaluation of the visibility is incorrect, because I think it is spot on and believe that it is way that most of us 5th Gen and 6th Gen owners feel.

Not dismissing that you see it as a problem, but why can't you accept that it is even possible that it is not an issue for some others?

[meb91]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

Do you guys even read posts, or do you just post without reading?

I should ask you the same question, because you keep ignoring mine...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

Like I said, multiple times, the blind spots became more apparent the more I drive the car.
I agree with 2 of your points.
I also am extrememly happy with the performance, and a "revolutionary design" should have been chosen instead of a rehashed 2010 Camaro design.

Cry? Little girl? I'll just ignore what you won't say to people's faces.

I'd be surprised if you'd pitch this tantrum if you were standing at a gen6 gathering with the guys and gals that posted here.

If I made such a mistake, I'd quietly decide my next move and get on with it. You effed up if it's that unacceptable to you.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

Wrong. The Camaro designer "effed up".
And, I said it to his face at a Gen6 gathering and stood my ground when the execs tried to dismiss my VALID issues with the car.
I've got no problem saying what I post to someone's face, GM exec or trolls included.
I doubt the guys busting my balls in this thread would do the same if they met me and my 2016 SS at a gathering.
Camaro owners like me, and the entire auto industry, have doumented the fact that the visibility is terrible.


How about we all chose to focus on what we all agree on?
Alpha, LT1, the stickshift, the interior, etc are all amazing on the 2016 Camaro.

GM just needs to release a Alpha SS Sedan ASAP so those that those who demand better visibility/utility can buy the SS sedan, and those that prefer "5th gen looks" over visibility/utility can continue to buy the 2016+ Camaro.
Everyone wins.

Frankly, Chevy should have just released the coupe and sedan at the same time, just like Caddy did with the ATS, and most all manufacturers do.

Sorry for the crying comment. I was doing catch up reading so pages of your vehement dislike for the car you bought got to me. You're right. If we met in person and you carried on, I'd probable walk away from you.

I haven't heard anything about a replacement for the SS so you might be waiting a while for that one. As for the gen6 Camaro, they (like you) made choices that they'll have to live with. I wanted a 1970 inspired car but like what they did with this one. As if they wanted a do-over on gen5 to show the world how truely great they could make it.

Planning for gen7 should begin within the next year. How about starting a thread discussing what we'd like to see in the next car?

[Number 3]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm an Alpha based SS replacement. I've been predicting that in an effort to make it come true on one of the SS sites....................which is far less active btw.

See how this thread has immediately become productive?

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

Wrong. The Camaro designer "effed up".
And, I said it to his face at a Gen6 gathering and stood my ground when the execs tried to dismiss my VALID issues with the car.
I've got no problem saying what I post to someone's face, GM exec or trolls included.
I doubt the guys busting my balls in this thread would do the same if they met me and my 2016 SS at a gathering.

I would absolutely tell you to your face because I am honest, blunt, and make no qualms about my opinions to people when they say or do something without common sense. You should not be on the roads if it's really that much of a problem for you. I reiterate that there were long time Camaro owners and enthusiasts who gave input to the GM design team on the car design and had no problem with the visibility. If visibility was so bad it would not pass federal regulations. Hell you had to actually open the door and sit on the frame rail of a Lamborghini Countach then turn around backwards while holding the wheel to see to back it up. Tell me about your unsafe visibility again.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by fastball

I would absolutely tell you to your face. You should not be on the roads if it's really that much of a problem for you. I reiterate that there were long time Camaro owners and enthusiasts who gave input to the GM design team on the car design and had no problem with the visibility. If visibility was so bad it would not pass federal regulations. Hell you had to actually open the door and sit on the frame rail of a Lamborghini Countach then turn around backwards while holding the wheel to see to back it up. Tell me about your unsafe visibility again.

Just so you know.............there are no federal regulations. That is why you can have a panel van with nothing more than a windshield and windows in two doors. You need an ISRV Mirror, two OSRV Mirrors, wipers that clear a certain percentage of the windshield and that's it. No size of window or direct vision requirements. No requirement to accommodate any size of occupant.

Why are some people so angry and defensive over this.

If you love your Camaro and are willing to rely on properly adjusted mirrors (indirect vision) and the high belt slammed roof is worth the tradeoff, then just enjoy your car.

The OP was posting why all the magazines complain about it. And the reason is that direct vision on the car was made worse in several areas compared to the Gen5. I'm not sure why this makes people angry. It's just a simple thing that GM chose Bad A$$ styling over making all around direct vision better with this car. Yes, over the hood is better. And for some that's enough. My hope was they would take steps to improve direct vision. They didn't and for me, I could get used to it. Mrs. Number 3? Wouldn't enjoy driving it. So that and a trunk too small for golf clubs is why I don't have a Gen6 right now.

But it is there but it's far from something worth being angry about.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by fastball

I would absolutely tell you to your face. You should not be on the roads if it's really that much of a problem for you. I reiterate that there were long time Camaro owners and enthusiasts who gave input to the GM design team on the car design and had no problem with the visibility. If visibility was so bad it would not pass federal regulations.

This argument makes no sense. You could replace the back window with sheet metal and it would still be legal. The federal regulations allow for mirrors and/or cameras to make up for visibility issues. That doesn't mean that there isn't a visibility issue with the gen6 car. You bring up a good point. Although it doesn't support what you were trying to say. The lambo's visibility sucks too. Just because it passes all federal regulations, it doesn't make that fact untrue.

I can't understand why people are getting so ,but hurt over this. I guess they can't take it when someone may suggest that their percious Camaro may not be perfect in everyway. I say so what. If the issues doesn't bother you great. That doesn't mean the issues doesn't exist for others, and from all that has been talked about and written about on the subject, in this car's very short life on earth, there has to be validity to it. Facts are facts. There is no argument.