[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shaffe

No he pretty much nailed it. Overcontended = over priced based on direct competitor. Believe it or not there are people who don't care about some of that extra standard stuff on the Camaro. The general public is for a lack of a better word stupid.

Then buy a Mustang.

I agree with what you're saying about the general public. But I refuse to yield to "stupid", and use that as a basis for argument.

Yes - to many, the car seems too expensive. But that does not equate to "overpriced", otherwise understood to mean "too expensive for what you're getting". And that...the Camaro is not.

Abercrombie, Hollister....those sorts of things are overpriced. In that particular case, it's cloth, shaped like a shirt. No additional stain preventing, fray-reducing, or any other feature.

The Camaro is not overpriced. It is over-contented. It has too much stuff standard relative to the competition. There is a distinction, but I'm not going to keep repeating myself if people are going to resort to semantics to further this discussion. I just don't have the time...

The only thing I will take the time to repeat is this:

If the Camaro team feels they need to sell more cars, just cutting price is not the answer, because the cars are 100% worth what they're charging. They're just not persuasive equipment packages relative to other cars in the segment. So expansive rebates and price reductions are a horrible idea from a business standpoint. The introduction of a 'stripper' model, or a reorganization of option packages will be far more beneficial to increase sales...AND maintain whatever $$$ they're making. Which, let's not forget, is the most important part of this...I want the Camaro to be successful and sell far into the future.

But...all this aside...last week, they seemed to be pretty content with the sales figures so far. So they may be making the right amount of money on these cars, and feel no need to increase sales figures at a lower price just to have a pissing contest with Ford's fleet-inflated monthly sales figures. ...

The only people that know the answer to this question, truthfully, are the people sitting around a table in the conference room who build it.

A lot of people around here sometimes forget they're not stupid, those Camaro engineers and managers in Detroit...

[Billabongi]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Again, I think if Chevy just included the HUD in the 2LT, it would make potential 2LT buyers feel much better. People that want the HUD really seem to WANT IT very much lol but not for $2,800. Increase the cost another 250 - 500 dollars and make HUD standard.

I'd be much more accepting of that. There's just no reason for a v6 to get over the 33k range without HUD being involved.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by shaffe

This ^ you pretty much nailed it.



No he pretty much nailed it. Overcontended = over priced based on direct competitor. Believe it or not there are people who don't care about some of that extra standard stuff on the Camaro. The general public is for a lack of a better word stupid. They aren't going to see things like that as an advantage. they are going to say does it effect the way the car drives while I am sitting in rush hour?


Think of it this way, you got some extra cash in your pocket and you want to splurge and get yourself a nice TV. Say you know nothing about electronics.

Your looking at a Samsung and Sharp, The sharp is say $800 and the Samsung is $1200

The Sharp is a 55" LCD 1080P 120Hz
The Samsung is 55" LED 1080P 240Hz Smart 3D TV - this one from what you may know, has a little better picture has some more features but if your tech challenged, and have no idea what the HZ means, or care if its a Smart TV which one are you going to choose? Are you going to shell out the extra 400 bucks for features you don't even know what they do?

It depends, an audio/video enthusiast will probably care about some of those specs and features and psychologically will help them justify the more expensive purchase. However, the bulk of the population will say, I just want to watch TV and that picture on the Sharp looks pretty good and it costs $400 less so I will take that one.

The business side of this though is that Sharp will sell way more TVs than Samsung in this example since it is about price vs performance. The Sharp gives me 90% of what I need for less money. That is how the Mustang argument could go for a lot of buyers. The Mustang 5.0 is plenty fast, looks cool and gives me about the same amount of fun for less money.

The market will speak over the coming months and then if needed GM will have to adjust pricing accordingly. They may have more profit structure built into these cars so they may be fine with selling fewer of them at a higher profit.

[MrChrisLS3]

Posted this in a thread over on Gen5. Using the build and price page on the Chevy web site, these are the MSRP for the cars base to base, no boxes checked. If you look further, comparing standard equipment, it makes the difference smaller in terms of what you get for the money, as far as I can tell.

Then, for the modders out there, compare the price and think about what it would take to add 30hp and match the handling of the new platform.

I just see where there's a huge jump in price all things considered. Sure, there are deals available for the '15, which may change the value equation for some, but that's not the point. The point is, if you could afford the '15 at msrp, then you should be able to afford the '16. Also consider that you may not need to check as many options as you would have for the '15 to get what you want.

People like to be dramatic comparing fully loaded new to base last year.

Reality

2015...............................2016 ............................................variance

1LT $ 27,000................... 1LT $28,190 *adding for V6 engine.. +$1,190
2LT $30,200.................... 2LT $ 32290 *adding for V6 engine.. +$2,090
1SS $34,500................... 1SS $ 37295.................................. +$2,795
2SS $38,300.................... 2SS $ 42,295................................ +$3,395

Of course these prices are directly from Chevy's build and price web site. Of course there are incentives and deals being made on '15's but that's not the point. The point is to illustrate the actual price increase model to model with no options selected. Base to base.

Bottom line is if you could afford the last Gen, you can most likely afford this one. All things considered, it's not a huge stretch

[aestil]

I think the point that was made by Mr. Wyndham is going to get lost on this rabid mouth breathing crowd. We dont' know how many Camaro's Chevy needs to sell to feel like it's a profitable and good product for them. Just because they are selling fewer Camaros than Mustangs, doesn't mean too much honestly. Are they currently selling as many as they can build? Are they selling them fast enough so that the inventory isn't piling up? Is the margin they are getting creating a really nice uptick in profit for them?

We just can't know these things, and while it is fair to assume that selling more cars is better than selling less cars, there are so many variables that we can't know that trying to call the Camaro a failure and that it's currently overpriced is really myopic.

It seems like it might be too expensive for you, or that from your perspective it's overpriced [none of the additional features/performance on the new Camaro have any value to you, so the additional cost is purely fluff that you don't want], but that doesn't mean that everyone will feel that way.

I think sunroofs and convertibles are horrible and I find it appalling that I would actually be charged MORE for those 'features'. But that doesn't mean that in general those features are 'overpriced' or that someone else might not want those so bad that they wouldn't even consider buying a car without them.

People who are banging this 'it's overpriced' drum seem to really be saying 'I can't afford it' or maybe 'from my perspective it's not any better than a 5th Gen or a S550 Mustang'. Those two feelings are very valid, but they don't make it 'overpriced' they just make it not worth it to you.

Now, the car is almost brand new still, and dealerships in my area [SoCal] only have a few models of each on lots, and no verts yet that I know of. So inventory doesn't seem to be stacking up, and it's so early yet that I doubt GM is feeling like they have a failure on their hands. To sell more cars they will probably need to do some more advertising, and have some more inventory, and if after all that they aren't selling enough to satisfy their buisiness requirements they'll probalby have to start looking at ways to reduce the price of the car, which will almost certainly mean de-contenting the vehicles to sell lower end models.

That maybe what people end up wanting! Still doesn't make the current vehicle 'overpriced'.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Posted this in a thread over on Gen5. Using the build and price page on the Chevy web site, these are the MSRP for the cars base to base, no boxes checked. If you look further, comparing standard equipment, it makes the difference smaller in terms of what you get for the money, as far as I can tell.

Then, for the modders out there, compare the price and think about what it would take to add 30hp and match the handling of the new platform.

I just see where there's a huge jump in price all things considered. Sure, there are deals available for the '15, which may change the value equation for some, but that's not the point. The point is, if you could afford the '15 at msrp, then you should be able to afford the '16. Also consider that you may not need to check as many options as you would have for the '15 to get what you want.

It is like a 10% price increase for a 2SS but it looks much worse when most of the cars dealers stock are loaded to the gills for $46-48k. Most of the average buyers don't plan to order cars, they just walk up and see what the like and buy.

It is a little harder for someone in my position who is driving a loaded 2013 2SS with the 1LE package and MSRP was 42,800 and only paid $38500. If I trade up now and want to be in the same ballpark pricewise I would need to downgrade to a 1SS with maybe NPP and MRC and lose the HUD, leather, 1LE wheels and wider aggressive tires, upgraded stereo and sunroof but pick up rev matching tech and Apple CarPlay. I don't know....and the new 1LE will be even more money. Thinking I may buy a garage queen vette and call it a day.

[KMPrenger]

People like to be dramatic comparing fully loaded new to base last year.

Reality

2015...............................2016 ............................................varian ce

1LT $ 27,000................... 1LT $28,190 *adding for V6 engine.. +$1,190
2LT $30,200.................... 2LT $ 32290 *adding for V6 engine.. +$2,090
1SS $34,500................... 1SS $ 37295.................................. +$2,795
2SS $38,300.................... 2SS $ 42,295................................ +$3,395

Of course these prices are directly from Chevy's build and price web site. Of course there are incentives and deals being made on '15's but that's not the point. The point is to illustrate the actual price increase model to model with no options selected. Base to base.

Bottom line is if you could afford the last Gen, you can most likely afford this one. All things considered, it's not a huge stretch

I think this is a very good way to look at it. If you ask me, seemingly the worst value (as far as extra cost) in the above list is the 2LT model. The 1LT, being only $1,190 more for a superior driver's car is completely worth it. Same goes for the 1SS when you consider it has the RS package standard, and had the 8" drivers display. If you were to add those things (well, I know the 8" display isn't possible) to the 2015, the price difference would be roughly $1,500 or so? Again...not bad at all for the superior power, handling, updated interior.

The 2SS looks like a huge jump, but not when you consider how freaking loaded it is (has all interior options aside from sunroof) plus the RS package. Maybe the 2SS is over contented as was said above.

My opinion, again, make the HUD standard on 2LT and on the 2SS, but on the 2SS pull out the lighting package as standard equipment and suddenly the 2SS price goes down by 1,500 to 2 grand.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Then buy a Mustang.

I agree with what you're saying about the general public. But I refuse to yield to "stupid", and use that as a basis for argument.

Yes - to many, the car seems too expensive. But that does not equate to "overpriced", otherwise understood to mean "too expensive for what you're getting". And that...the Camaro is not.

Abercrombie, Hollister....those sorts of things are overpriced. In that particular case, it's cloth, shaped like a shirt. No additional stain preventing, fray-reducing, or any other feature.

The Camaro is not overpriced. It is over-contented. It has too much stuff standard relative to the competition. There is a distinction, but I'm not going to keep repeating myself if people are going to resort to semantics to further this discussion. I just don't have the time...

The only thing I will take the time to repeat is this:

If the Camaro team feels they need to sell more cars, just cutting price is not the answer, because the cars are 100% worth what they're charging. They're just not persuasive equipment packages relative to other cars in the segment. So expansive rebates and price reductions are a horrible idea from a business standpoint. The introduction of a 'stripper' model, or a reorganization of option packages will be far more beneficial to increase sales...AND maintain whatever $$$ they're making. Which, let's not forget, is the most important part of this...I want the Camaro to be successful and sell far into the future.

But...all this aside...last week, they seemed to be pretty content with the sales figures so far. So they may be making the right amount of money on these cars, and feel no need to increase sales figures at a lower price just to have a pissing contest with Ford's fleet-inflated monthly sales figures. ...

The only people that know the answer to this question, truthfully, are the people sitting around a table in the conference room who build it.

A lot of people around here sometimes forget they're not stupid, those Camaro engineers and managers in Detroit...

I see your point as well.

As long as they are selling enough cars that is all that matters. I had a longer reply but it would just continue the same back and forth lol so

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I see your point as well.

As long as they are selling enough cars that is all that matters. I had a longer reply but it would just continue the same back and forth lol so

I'll drink to that.

[suzook]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I suspect those who went out and dropped near 50k for their cars are going to be in for a rude awakening when Chevy is forced to offer huge discounts to move the 16s which are presently piling up. If you are interested in a purchase hang in there until Fall and you may see another 20% off campaign.

Lol, this is hilarious. I haven't looked back at my 2013 2ss dusk. I love my 2016, and yes, getting in it early cost more upfront. What doesn't in life??? Of course waiting till end of year will bring lower prices, we ALL know that. I didn't care, as I enjoy my 2016 way before everyone else that is waiting. Life is short to wait for the next "deal". I'm out, taking a 300 mile road trip with the wife in my 2016.

[PH3688]

Originally Posted by suzook

Life is short to wait for the next "deal".

dumbest thing I ever heard.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by suzook

Lol, this is hilarious. I haven't looked back at my 2013 2ss dusk. I love my 2016, and yes, getting in it early cost more upfront. What doesn't in life??? Of course waiting till end of year will bring lower prices, we ALL know that. I didn't care, as I enjoy my 2016 way before everyone else that is waiting. Life is short to wait for the next "deal". I'm out, taking a 300 mile road trip with the wife in my 2016.

That is great for you, some may need that $1500-2000k savings and it could pay for a year of insurance or a new set of tires or put toward a family vacation, etc.

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

That is great for you, some may need that $1500-2000k savings and it could pay for a year of insurance or a new set of tires or put toward a family vacation, etc.

If that really makes a difference then you maybe should be looking at a lesser package or another car. The price is what it is, and dealers aren't going to sell below cost because a buyer can't afford his dream car. This is why Chevy makes the Spark, Sonic, Cruze etc. $40K is a lot of money. Step up or don't. I can't see Chevy reducing prices in the near future. If anything it will go up as it did with the C7 6 months after intro...$2K was the bump..

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Then buy a Mustang.

I agree with what you're saying about the general public. But I refuse to yield to "stupid", and use that as a basis for argument.

Yes - to many, the car seems too expensive. But that does not equate to "overpriced", otherwise understood to mean "too expensive for what you're getting". And that...the Camaro is not.

Abercrombie, Hollister....those sorts of things are overpriced. In that particular case, it's cloth, shaped like a shirt. No additional stain preventing, fray-reducing, or any other feature.

The Camaro is not overpriced. It is over-contented. It has too much stuff standard relative to the competition. There is a distinction, but I'm not going to keep repeating myself if people are going to resort to semantics to further this discussion. I just don't have the time...

The only thing I will take the time to repeat is this:

If the Camaro team feels they need to sell more cars, just cutting price is not the answer, because the cars are 100% worth what they're charging. They're just not persuasive equipment packages relative to other cars in the segment. So expansive rebates and price reductions are a horrible idea from a business standpoint. The introduction of a 'stripper' model, or a reorganization of option packages will be far more beneficial to increase sales...AND maintain whatever $$$ they're making. Which, let's not forget, is the most important part of this...I want the Camaro to be successful and sell far into the future.

But...all this aside...last week, they seemed to be pretty content with the sales figures so far. So they may be making the right amount of money on these cars, and feel no need to increase sales figures at a lower price just to have a pissing contest with Ford's fleet-inflated monthly sales figures. ...

The only people that know the answer to this question, truthfully, are the people sitting around a table in the conference room who build it.

A lot of people around here sometimes forget they're not stupid, those Camaro engineers and managers in Detroit...

Have you seen Mustang sells for Feb. Vs. Camaro? They are buying Mustangs.