[Jeb114]

I agree with you but this is what she purchased.


2016 BMW 228i xDrive M Sport Convertible Stickered for $51,000 after negotiation sold for $48,500

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

Here's the real problem. My friend owns a Chevy/BMW dealer. He has 6 16 Camaro's most of them loaded, 2 are 2SS's MSRP $52.000, The farther comes into the dealer ship with his daughter and looks at the pretty Camaros, He says to the salesmen, there kind of High for a Chevy. The salesmen states yea its funny I can get you in a BMW 1,2 or 3 series for less than that. The daughter yells yes lets go look at the BMW's. Pricing can be the life or death of a car. And the owner said to me after telling me this story this has happened several times in the past 2 weeks.

Maybe your friend should quit ordering loaded models?

It's not GM's fault your friend apparently sucks at managing his inventory. GM even provides him with a suggested ordering mix that includes cheaper, lesser equipped cars. If he's going to ignore that and screw himself, well...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

I agree with you but this is what she purchased.

2016 BMW 228i xDrive M Sport Convertible Stickered for $51,000 after negotiation sold for $48,500

I think it's fair to say that buyer wasn't there to buy his daughter a loaded 2SS with 6 piston brakes. That's a nice car but in no way comparable to a 2SS Camaro.

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

I agree with you but this is what she purchased.

2016 BMW 228i xDrive M Sport Convertible Stickered for $51,000 after negotiation sold for $48,500

You meant to say "this is what her dad bought for her." Man, that's some serious cash either way. When I got my first car, the only rule was it had to be built some time after airbags became mandatory.

But anyway, I think that's a poor example of your average Camaro shopper. Even so, I think that those looking to spend even a lower sum of $40k or so will end up cross-shopping BMW's as well, the 3 series in particular.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

You meant to say "this is what her dad bought for her." Man, that's some serious cash either way. When I got my first car, the only rule was it had to be built some time after airbags became mandatory.

But anyway, I think that's a poor example of your average Camaro shopper. Even so, I think that those looking to spend even a lower sum of $40k or so will end up cross-shopping BMW's as well, the 3 series in particular.

Would a 3 series buyer have even considered a Camaro 2SS in 2002 or 2015? A loaded 2SS is expensive but performance and content is high. The next head 2 head will be interesting.

Buyers with less income can option accordingly.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Would a 3 series buyer have even considered a Camaro 2SS in 2002 or 2015? A loaded 2SS is expensive but performance and content is high. The next head 2 head will be interesting.

Buyers with less income can option accordingly.

It seems that product mix seems to be a little wonky. There are some dealerships in my area that have mostly fully loaded 2SS models.

The dealership that I frequent has only one non-RS with automatic transmission on the lot.

Could Chevy's distribution network for Camaro be having growing pains since production moved to another assembly plant for this generation? Or are dealerships merely ordering the wrong mix of vehicles?

I know LGR produces ATS and CTS...But those models are not mass-produced vehicles like the Camaro.

It seems Ford has gotten the product mix correct from the beginning for the latest Mustang. But the Flat Rock plant has been making Mustangs for the last ten years.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

It seems that product mix seems to be a little wonky. There are some dealerships in my area that have mostly fully loaded 2SS models.

The dealership that I frequent has only one non-RS with automatic transmission on the lot.

Could Chevy's distribution network for Camaro be having growing pains since production moved to another assembly plant for this generation? Or are dealerships merely ordering the wrong mix of vehicles?

I know LGR produces ATS and CTS...But those models are not mass-produced vehicles like the Camaro.

It seems Ford has gotten the product mix correct from the beginning for the latest Mustang. But the Flat Rock plant has been making Mustangs for the last ten years.

Dealers order cars. The factory just builds them.

And I think you meant that the ATS and CTS are built in smaller quantities than the Camaro...because they're all mass-produced...

Originally Posted by Jeb114

Here's the real problem. My friend owns a Chevy/BMW dealer. He has 6 16 Camaro's most of them loaded, 2 are 2SS's MSRP $52.000, The farther comes into the dealer ship with his daughter and looks at the pretty Camaros, He says to the salesmen, there kind of High for a Chevy. The salesmen states yea its funny I can get you in a BMW 1,2 or 3 series for less than that. The daughter yells yes lets go look at the BMW's. Pricing can be the life or death of a car. And the owner said to me after telling me this story this has happened several times in the past 2 weeks.

Sounds like a not-so-great salesman...should have at least mentioned how loaded that car was (must have been)....

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Dealers order cars. The factory just builds them.

And I think you meant that the ATS and CTS are built in smaller quantities than the Camaro...because they're all mass-produced...

Correct...I used the wrong wording.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

Correct...I used the wrong wording.

No worries!

[Number 3]

This is the concern GM and Ford have right now. Pricing against the known luxury brands and the cache of that brand.

I can remember one of my two favorite cars GM every made in the late 90's. The Oldsmobile Intrigue and Aurora. The Intrigue was a great case in pricing. By the time you ordered the suspension upgrade, the overhead cam V6 and all the goodies, that car topped out over $30,000. Similarly, the Aurora topped out over $40,000. At that time, the Intrigue was knocking on the door of a decently equipped 3 Series. So unless you are hung up on size of the car (really an American thing) you would buy the BMW. And that, IMO, is hat lead to the death of Oldsmobile. They started making some really nice cars, but by the time you loaded them up? Priced to the level of a BMW. And no one at that time was picking a an Olds over a BMW.

I could tell you of the dozens and dozens of clinic results where GM showed a car to the public and they went Ape $hit over it. Then they branded it and it fall to the BOTTOM. Not to the middle or down a couple of slots, to the BOTTOM.

I could tell you the story when Mrs. Number 3 (Corvette Marketing Manager at the time)went to the Cadillac XLR clinic as it was a year ahead of the Corvette. She LOVED the car. Couldn't wait to buy one. Gushed over the car. When told it was a Cadillac, she immediately decided her Mom might want one, but she certainly would never own one.

So when someone walks into a Chevy dealer to look at a Camaro, and you aren't Chevy or Camaro loyalist like EVERYONE on this site, it's a different ball game.

These people aren't buying a Chevrolet or a Camaro, they are spending $45,000 to $50,000 on the "top end" car. And if they can get a BMW 3/4 Series for close to that, which one are they going to buy?

Another case in point. Please go load up a Ford Fusion (big seller) and a Chevrolet Malibu (hopefully a big seller with the redesign). Either one loaded comes in at right around $36,000 (eyes pop out of sockets!!!!!) You can get a bottom end Audi, BMW and Mercedes for that price. Don't mind that you can still load those up more. So for $36,000 you can have a Chevy or Ford, but for $40,000 you can have nice 3 Series sedan (starts at $33,000) a MB CLA (starts at $32,000) or an Audi A3 (starts at $30,000) or an Audi A4 (starts at $37,000). If you aren't a loyalist and don't car about the 2 remaining US car manufacturers, are you going for the luxury brand with a 4 year warranty or the Chevy or Ford with a 3 year warranty?????

This is the one thing (and don't get excited, it's a compliment) you guys don't understand. Most of you on this site are SO loyal you can't grasp why someone would buy a Mustang over a Camaro. You get horribly defensive when I even suggest visibility is a problem in the Camaro as if I just said you kid was ugly. You guys aren't the ones GM is worried about. You are so passionate you come to this website every day to talk about how great the Camaro is and jump on anyone who even hints there might be a flaw.

Put yourself in the position of the girl who's father is taking her out to buy a car. He might be leaning to the Chevrolet. But once she hears BMW???? All bets are off. This is GM's battle and Fords too.

You guys know that more than half of all cars purchased in the good old USA are foreign brands right? GM and Ford combined are barely 30% market share. FCA is no longer in the equation as they are owned lock stock and barrel by Fiat.

This simple transaction has hit square on the point I've been trying to get you guys to see since December of 2008. GM needs to make more better cars. Don't misunderstand, GM is improving leaps and bounds. Problem is...............so is everyone else.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

This is the concern GM and Ford have right now. Pricing against the known luxury brands and the cache of that brand.

I can remember one of my two favorite cars GM every made in the late 90's. The Oldsmobile Intrigue and Aurora. The Intrigue was a great case in pricing. By the time you ordered the suspension upgrade, the overhead cam V6 and all the goodies, that car topped out over $30,000. Similarly, the Aurora topped out over $40,000. At that time, the Intrigue was knocking on the door of a decently equipped 3 Series. So unless you are hung up on size of the car (really an American thing) you would buy the BMW. And that, IMO, is hat lead to the death of Oldsmobile. They started making some really nice cars, but by the time you loaded them up? Priced to the level of a BMW. And no one at that time was picking a an Olds over a BMW.

I could tell you of the dozens and dozens of clinic results where GM showed a car to the public and they went Ape $hit over it. Then they branded it and it fall to the BOTTOM. Not to the middle or down a couple of slots, to the BOTTOM.

I could tell you the story when Mrs. Number 3 (Corvette Marketing Manager at the time)went to the Cadillac XLR clinic as it was a year ahead of the Corvette. She LOVED the car. Couldn't wait to buy one. Gushed over the car. When told it was a Cadillac, she immediately decided her Mom might want one, but she certainly would never own one.

So when someone walks into a Chevy dealer to look at a Camaro, and you aren't Chevy or Camaro loyalist like EVERYONE on this site, it's a different ball game.

These people aren't buying a Chevrolet or a Camaro, they are spending $45,000 to $50,000 on the "top end" car. And if they can get a BMW 3/4 Series for close to that, which one are they going to buy?

Another case in point. Please go load up a Ford Fusion (big seller) and a Chevrolet Malibu (hopefully a big seller with the redesign). Either one loaded comes in at right around $36,000 (eyes pop out of sockets!!!!!) You can get a bottom end Audi, BMW and Mercedes for that price. Don't mind that you can still load those up more. So for $36,000 you can have a Chevy or Ford, but for $40,000 you can have nice 3 Series sedan (starts at $33,000) a MB CLA (starts at $32,000) or an Audi A3 (starts at $30,000) or an Audi A4 (starts at $37,000). If you aren't a loyalist and don't car about the 2 remaining US car manufacturers, are you going for the luxury brand with a 4 year warranty or the Chevy or Ford with a 3 year warranty?????

This is the one thing (and don't get excited, it's a compliment) you guys don't understand. Most of you on this site are SO loyal you can't grasp why someone would buy a Mustang over a Camaro. You get horribly defensive when I even suggest visibility is a problem in the Camaro as if I just said you kid was ugly. You guys aren't the ones GM is worried about. You are so passionate you come to this website every day to talk about how great the Camaro is and jump on anyone who even hints there might be a flaw.

Put yourself in the position of the girl who's father is taking her out to buy a car. He might be leaning to the Chevrolet. But once she hears BMW???? All bets are off. This is GM's battle and Fords too.

You guys know that more than half of all cars purchased in the good old USA are foreign brands right? GM and Ford combined are barely 30% market share. FCA is no longer in the equation as they are owned lock stock and barrel by Fiat.

This simple transaction has hit square on the point I've been trying to get you guys to see since December of 2008. GM needs to make more better cars. Don't misunderstand, GM is improving leaps and bounds. Problem is...............so is everyone else.

...So customers turn up their nose at a fully loaded Camaro, in favor of a higher priced, lower end BMW, Audi or Mercedes...and somehow that's a problem for Chevy?

They walked away from the Camaro only because there were no other lower priced models of the Camaro on the floor....The Camaro was their (her) first choice, probably because she liked the styling and not really fair given the dealer only had a few high priced Camaros to show her.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 90503

...So customers turn up their nose at a fully loaded Camaro, in favor of a higher priced, lower end BMW, Audi or Mercedes...and somehow that's a problem for Chevy?

Yes. There is still a very bad brand image issue for Chevy...less-so for Ford. Even though that BMW was probably marginally equipped, and featured a comparably anemic engine compared to the Camaros in the room....it was a "BMW"...which so many people apparently attribute as "better".

I still say the salesman was shoddy, or biased...or both. He could have at least told the guy, "Yes, it's expensive, come - sit inside and I'll show you why. Then we can look at the BMW."

[90503]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Yes. There is still a very bad brand image issue for Chevy...less-so for Ford. Even though that BMW was probably marginally equipped, and featured a comparably anemic engine compared to the Camaros in the room....it was a "BMW"...which so many people apparently attribute as "better".

I still say the salesman was shoddy, or biased...or both. He could have at least told the guy, "Yes, it's expensive, come - sit inside and I'll show you why. Then we can look at the BMW."

Sounds to me more like an undeserved and over exaggerated brand image of BMW....If customers don't really want to compare, and just go off of preconceived notions, not sure how or why Chevy would need to "compete" with that.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by 90503

Sounds to me more like an undeserved and over exaggerated brand image of BMW....If customers don't really want to compare, and just go off of preconceived notions, not sure how or why Chevy would need to "compete" with that.

Because in order to grow the market share they need to compete and fight to change the image of GM.