[LesBaer]

The cop is right about there being another way for them to catch you. It's a computer based device that doesn't set off the detectors that they use to catch you from behind when you're moving. My friend is state trooper in CT and explained it to me once. It looks at your car moving in relation to something else that isn't, like the lines on the road to clock you.

The guy who said laser jammers are not illegal is also wrong. You're interfering with law enforcement. Good luck arguing that it's legal. edit - the jammer is legal. JammING is going to get you in trouble.

And don't get caught speeding in VA. Depending where you are, they will throw your ass in jail for 1-3 days regardless of the speed. There's a story on Jalopnik about one of their writers with a ZL1 getting locked up a few years ago.

For the app, I use the escort paid app with detector. It marks every cop that anyone else with an escort detector has marked either manually through the app or by the detector itself. Waze is good for a free app, but you're going to get a ton of outdated markings when the cop's long gone.

[LesBaer]

BTW - the escort detector that i have has a cloaking device built into it and you can black out the display.

Also, I would not be that scared off of the jammers, just be smart. I was in a car that had one and the driver was showing off his new AMG and got nailed. It sends back no reading to the cop. The cop thinks something didn't work once, and tries again. You had better slow down and push the OFF button (hidden in your ash tray or somewhere) at that point so he gets a good reading.

In our case, the cop got too slow of a reading. He knew there was a jammer and kept us there forever looking for it. The sensors need to be well hidden. He didn't find them and let us go - but this was 10 years ago. Things could have changed by then.

The last bit of knowledge that I'll drop is that the cops (in NY and CT at least) used to be complete dicks with people speeding. They've all had to go to re-training because of the stuff in the news for how to handle people. Just don't be a jerk back to the cop and if you have a clean record or valid reason, they are likely to let you off now for a first offense more than ever. All the negative PR has really gotten to them. Just be nice and be honest. It's probably your best shot at a warning.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

The guy who said laser jammers are not illegal is also wrong. You're interfering with law enforcement. Good luck arguing that it's legal. edit - the jammer is legal. JammING is going to get you in trouble.

Laser jammers are legal in some areas. And if the equipment is legal to possess, the use of it is implied. The law would have to be written prohit use specifically, and most areas have no laws regarding it.

http://www.guysoflidar.com/usa-laser-jammer-laws.html

http://www.radarbusters.com/State-Ra...aws-s/2412.htm

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

The cop is right about there being another way for them to catch you. It's a computer based device that doesn't set off the detectors that they use to catch you from behind when you're moving. My friend is state trooper in CT and explained it to me once. It looks at your car moving in relation to something else that isn't, like the lines on the road to clock you.

I love it! Yes, there are numerous ways to be caught by LEO. All of them offset by some countermeasure. In the case of VASCAR (or similar systems) simply knowing where the LEO is and what they are doing are enough of a counter to defeat this system. (Wanna really play havoc with a time-distance system? Vary your speed across the distance as much as possible while keeping your total time across the distance within the PSL. )

Likewise, LEO can pace a vehicle and use that as the basis for generating a performance award.

Allow me to reiterate. RADAR and LASER detectors are not magic talismans that allow operators (as opposed to drivers, people who are actively involved in the process of driving) to get away with performance. They are tools that require the appropriate application of situational awareness (happy now Imp? )

In the case of any time-distance measurement, or the pace method I would question the observation and calibration of all methods used, in court. Remember, this is about ensuring that the alleged infraction is provable. Simply taking Authority at their word leads to Bad Outcomes(TM).

Originally Posted by LesBaer

The guy who said laser jammers are not illegal is also wrong. You're interfering with law enforcement. Good luck arguing that it's legal.

Where is the proof that anyone is interfering with LEO when it comes to LASER jammers. If there is no statute, there is no standing. End. Of. Discussion. Regardless of what LEO or any other person wants or says. This is how law works, thankfully.

An LEO may allege that my parking assistance system is interfering with their enforcement device. However, if there is no law, rule, regulation, or statute that prohibits the use of a device then that device is, according to the law, not illegal. If the LEO alleges my device interferes with their device, they must prove, in a court of law, that this is so. Then, and only then, could an interference charge be upheld. Good luck on actually proving that the device was active and interfering with the LEO device at any given time.

As I had noted earlier, some municipalities and states may have laws which do impact the use of LASER jammers. As it stands presently, there are no Federal rules, regulations, or laws that speak to the use of LASER jammers. (Of which I am aware.)

Originally Posted by LesBaer

For the app, I use the escort paid app with detector. It marks every cop that anyone else with an escort detector has marked either manually through the app or by the detector itself. Waze is good for a free app, but you're going to get a ton of outdated markings when the cop's long gone.

What is the stability of the Escort app like in your opinion. I've stayed away from it because the feedback I've had to this point is that it is wonky and unstable.

I agree about the outdated markings in Waze. But they are useful to some extent as well to develop a sense for where LEO may routinely operate revenue generation actions.

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

What stops law enforcement from using WAZE against us?

Of course some may say they wouldn't do as i'm implying because tickets are a source of revenue, but if they really cared about us "driving safe", then they could turn it against us and render it useless (with regards to avoiding a ticket).

Not a thing, really.

Apparently at least one police agency has attempted a denial of service attack on Waze...

http://gizmodo.com/police-are-trying...-ph-1685391655

[LesBaer]

Vascar I think is the name of thing the state trooper was telling about.

You can say whatever you want about jamming, but I've read things from the FCC in the past that say you can't interfere with another signal.

If you transmit a signal that interferes with a law enforcement device and they catch you, you're more than likely going to get arrested. Then you're going to have to hire an attorney and fight your fight in court. Have fun with that. I guarantee you the police are going to just go with "tell it to the judge". The municipality is probably going to reference a lot more FCC regulations than any of us know - whether they be right or wrong - that will ruin your ability to get out and enjoy your car. It will cost you money, even if you win. You lose even if you win. I'm not saying I wouldn't use a jammer if I had one, I'm just saying don't be an idiot about it and get caught.

All laws are open to interpretation...that's not necessarily a good thing.

[LesBaer]

I forgot to respond to your app question. The Escort app was wonky at first, but that was years ago. Sometimes it doesn't start up or will crash on start up, but it takes 2 seconds to restart it. You just hit log-in again. Really not an issue I've worried about - but it does kill your phone battery pretty good, so be plugged in when using it.

The thing that sucks about it is if someone has a little kid that gets a hold of their phone and opens the app and just keeps hitting the button to manually mark a cop. The kid could hit it over and over and over again, and then you're going to have false readings. That happened to me a few times in the years I've had it, but not a lot.

It does have a lot of settings though, so you can overwrite old markings quickly. I like it a lot and it's funny now that Waze is a big thing - i always see people slowing down on the commute home in the spots where cops like to hide when there's no cop there.

For me, I'd rather spend a few bucks and have the better tool. If I wanted something free, I'd go Waze.

[SuperSound]

Lasers are not licensed by the FCC. So you aren't interfering with anything within their jurisdiction. Lasers are strangely part of the FDA space, but that has more to due with health related issues it seems.

http://www.fda.gov/radiation-emittin...ts/default.htm

[LesBaer]

I still wouldn't snub my nose at them if I was using one. They give people tickets for flashing their lights to warn other cars there's a cop hiding. Jamming a cops device is a lot worse than that and it's not like it from something passive. You're actively trying to mess with his ability to enforce the law. I'd use one if I had it, but I'd hide it. I literally was pulled over that day for over an hour while he tried to find the sensors in that car. We just kept our mouths shut, but you guys can do whatever you want.

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

You can say whatever you want about jamming, but I've read things from the FCC in the past that say you can't interfere with another signal.

Srsly?!? /sigh

Alright, so I won't offer proof or anything but suffice it to say that I have pretty significant experience when it comes to things related to the Friendly Candy Company.

The FCC does not regulate LASER transmissions. FCC regulations stop at 300GHz. LASER is regulated in the US by the FDA.

I agree that the FCC will levy fines, beginning at $10,000, for interference with their regulated spectrum. The infrared used by LEO is above 300GHz in frequency. And as far as I know there is absolutely no federal regulation or law that speaks to interference fines being levied by the FDA.

Originally Posted by LesBaer

If you transmit a signal that interferes with a law enforcement device and they catch you, you're more than likely going to get arrested. Then you're going to have to hire an attorney and fight your fight in court. Have fun with that. I guarantee you the police are going to just go with "tell it to the judge". The municipality is probably going to reference a lot more FCC regulations than any of us know - whether they be right or wrong - that will ruin your ability to get out and enjoy your car. It will cost you money, even if you win. You lose even if you win. I'm not saying I wouldn't use a jammer if I had one, I'm just saying don't be an idiot about it and get caught.

All laws are open to interpretation...that's not necessarily a good thing.

Absolutely incorrect view of how our justice system works. You're entitled to your opinion though. Your opinion is not congruent with the facts.

I'm really not trying to be a [expletive] about this, but it kills me when people make assumptions about how our very amazing system of law enforcement and jurisprudence works.

I have had fun with the system. Thanks! I exercise my rights when I feel the need justifies the means.

It is a seriously good thing laws are open to interpretation. I would not want to live in such a seriously backward world where there is only one way of thinking.

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

I still wouldn't snub my nose at them if I was using one. They give people tickets for flashing their lights to warn other cars there's a cop hiding. Jamming a cops device is a lot worse than that and it's not like it from something passive. You're actively trying to mess with his ability to enforce the law. I'd use one if I had it, but I'd hide it. I literally was pulled over that day for over an hour while he tried to find the sensors in that car. We just kept our mouths shut, but you guys can do whatever you want.

Yep, they can. And it was found to infringe on the First Amendment.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...eed-traps.html

So, the ticket would be dismissed as there is precedent now.

See, as I said earlier. Our system of law and justice is very cool and fluid in dealing with the messiness that comes from being human.

Honestly, you hit the nail right on the head when it comes to dealing with LEO. Be professional and be quiet.

If you've got the time, this video is a good treatise

[Lethalphoenix]

Originally Posted by Tachyon

I absolutely disagree with Mr. LEO on all except four items. The four I agree with:
1. LEO are people too.
2. Some LEO drive the same cars we do.
3. Some LEO like to have fun.
4. Be professional to LEO.

The remainder are an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because an LEO says something does not make it true.

Countermeasures, when used correctly and with appropriate situation awareness, are extremely effective. You don't have to believe me, but my experience differs greatly from Mr. LEO. Nor do you have to believe Mr. LEO that they are ineffective, as that's what he wants to believe because in his experience he catches drivers all day long who are running countermeasures.

Problem with this logic is that Mr. LEO does not, and cannot know, how many fish swam away from the revenue generation stream because they were using countermeasures in an effective fashion, while diligently maintaining situation awareness. Any claims that this is an incorrect assessment should be met with appropriate incredulity.

Mr. LEO has succumbed to what is known as the Texas Sharp Shooter fallacy. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses is disingenuous.

With respect to "you're already caught". Statistically, even the most prudent and safe drivers will have an encounter with an LEO during their driving lifetime. I doubt even Mr. LEO knows how many laws he fractured on the way into the office this morning. I have no doubt that even if I attempted to follow every law, rule, and regulation of which I am aware the next time I got into my vehicle I would still fracture some law, rule, or regulation of which I am not aware. The law is a complex series of patches that try to make messy social interactions a bit better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Invariably, those with the monopoly on force can determine an infraction to some law, rule, or regulation because the law is such a mess.

Which leads to my conclusion. When, not if (again, statistics is a cold-hard biatch), you have a roadside visit with LEO it is imperative that you treat him or her with the professionalism due their position in our society. Note that I did not say faux respect. Note that I did not say cower in fear. She or he is human and doing their job in a professional manner. We should be professional as well, and understand how this interaction should proceed. We do not admit guilt, we do not offer anything that may be used against us, we provide them with the requested and required information and nothing more. If in doubt about an answer, silence is golden. Accept your performance award in a professional and cordial manner. Sign the award and thank the LEO for his or her professionalism and proceed on your way. Near traffic is not the place where we admit our guilt, nor is it the place where we attempt to defend ourselves against those that allege we have broken a law, rule, or regulation. The appropriate place is in the court of law which we use as a crucible to determine the validity of the devices, processes, and observations used to allege our infraction. If those devices, processes, or observations are found fallible, incorrect, or outright invalid accept your innocence with grace. If they are found effective and reliable, accept your guilt with aplomb and pay your debt to our society.

In the final estimation, don't simply take Authority's word at face value (or mine for that matter). Work the system as much as it is works you.

A postscript: I am not a lawyer. I am not an LEO. I am a productive member of society that has routine professional and personal contact with the former that believes both serve our society to the best of their knowledge, skills, and abilities.

Wow, was not trying to offend anyone by offering my opinion on a subject I deal with on a daily basis. No need for the, "Mr. LEO", as I am fine with my own fallacy. I don't, nor have I ever, seen myself as "Above" anyone because of my job! It's a job, not who I am! I am simply trying to point out that radar "detectors" don't always work. As for laser jammers, I assume you are talking about the kind installed on a front plate or "bra" type, do nothing when the laser is aimed at the rear view mirror. And as for all the speeders that get by me... Just because I don't go after them doesn't mean I didn't notice them. Like I said, I'm human and understand the impulse to give a nice car a kick in the ass every once in a while, but drive like a complete asshole,with disregard to others safety, and I'll do what ever is necessary to bust your ass! After all, it just might be your wife's life that asshole is playing with! Oh, and remember " Motorola" is faster than anything on the road!

[Childs Play]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

The cop is right about there being another way for them to catch you. It's a computer based device that doesn't set off the detectors that they use to catch you from behind when you're moving. My friend is state trooper in CT and explained it to me once. It looks at your car moving in relation to something else that isn't, like the lines on the road to clock you.

The guy who said laser jammers are not illegal is also wrong. You're interfering with law enforcement. Good luck arguing that it's legal. edit - the jammer is legal. JammING is going to get you in trouble.

And don't get caught speeding in VA. Depending where you are, they will throw your ass in jail for 1-3 days regardless of the speed. There's a story on Jalopnik about one of their writers with a ZL1 getting locked up a few years ago.

For the app, I use the escort paid app with detector. It marks every cop that anyone else with an escort detector has marked either manually through the app or by the detector itself. Waze is good for a free app, but you're going to get a ton of outdated markings when the cop's long gone.

Lazer jammers are illegal in most places but... so is speeding. So........ lol?

Either way you'll get a ticket if you're caught on either of them.

Shut off the jammer within 2-3 seconds and you should be fine.

[SuperSound]

• California
• Colorado
• Illinois
• Minnesota
• Nebraska
• Oklahoma
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• Texas
• Utah
• Virginia
• Washington D.C.

12 out of 50 states is definitely not most places. But definitely more than the 2 states that ban radar detectors. Course it would not surprise me if they ban laser jammers Federally at some point.