[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I just wanted more. So I apologize for that.

You need not apologize. We're all allowed to have a civil discussion.

This conversation has had me paying very close attention to other "sporty" cars I see rolling around. Things like Mustang, Challengers, FRSs, 370zs...There are obviously differences...but the "gunslit" windows are a design feature that has been integrated almost across the board to varying degrees.

It's the sporty "look" of the times. But in order to get that AND a 5-star safety rating, doors and beltlines have been raised...which in turn creates very little glass to work with. A lot of the cars I'm seeing solve this problem by creating a "bubble roof" shape (a round in the sheet metal near the drivers to add an inch or so of glass), and as a side-effect...a lot of cars share nearly identical rooflines.

The Camaro, however, has a very flat, chopped roofline that is distinctive from most others in the class. I wonder if that's a bull-nosed decision that Chevrolet design has adopted just to avoid being confused with any other vehicle. A thought.

But I've also noticed that none are without their own compromises...For example, the FRS and BRZ have lousy interiors. They look kinda funky and sporty...but they're very low quality. They're also very low to the ground, compromising ingress/egress, have no torque whatsoever, and the rear seat makes the Camaro's look like a cushy sofa.

But the Camaro now features an interior worthy of a Stingray...if the 5th-gen had an interior like a base-level car...this new one looks like a 40,000 car. It's easier to enter/exit, and even the base turbo four will kick your head back.

Both of these cars start at the same price point.

Some folks are turned off by RWD of any sort, which automatically limits the buyer for this car to a "sporty"-oriented person...there are some base-base-base model coupes out there like the Honda Civic, and the toyota Yaris. There used to be more, like the Cobalt....seems those sales are drying up.

So you're left with things like:

370z, BRZ, FRS, Genesis coupe, Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro...All start in the mid $20s...but the Mustang and Camaro are top dog in this base-model coupe showdown with regards to performance and features. I seriously question the judgement of anybody buying the others on this list...but we're all different...right?

And of these two...it seems that historically...whichever speaks more to the ego and style...has been getting the sales. That would seem to be the Camaro this generation, again.

But I've been rambling. I guess my point is - the entire segment is coalescing in the same sort of vehicle, in terms of style. The segment is also expanding with the addition of the toyota/Subaru/Hyundai cars...but in this segment...I think the Camaro offers the compelling value at any price-point that should attract buyers.

I don't think the car should appeal to those looking for "just a coupe". Because it may turn away customers looking for that "wow factor". I think the should build a Cruze coupe for...sporty utility.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I don't think the car should appeal to those looking for "just a coupe". Because it may turn away customers looking for that "wow factor". I think the should build a Cruze coupe for...sporty utility.

I believe that is the point the No 3 has been trying to hammer down, is that maybe they should have tried to get some of those customers looking for "just a coupe". In fact the car needs to appeal to them. If it just appeals to the enthusiast the car will fail sales wise.

There are other buyers out there that are not enthusiasts, don't care about performance. There are people that just want a coupe, and there isn't really a lot of options out there, Camaro and Mustang being the most popular. Those fringe buyers that want "just a coupe" may go mustang because they find it more liveable,

It is amazing what one bad impression can do on a test drive. My wife wanted a GMC Terrain, but when we test drove it, the way she likes to be seated and the way she likes her mirrors, she did not like the visibility at all, and instantly crossed it off her list.

[EricTheCamaroGuy]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

Well, the visibility does suck and but it's got blind spot monitoring so I don't see what the problem is. When I test drove it, the blind spots where the only area where it really would've caused a problem if there was no blind spot monitoring.

I was more annoyed with them complaining about the tilt of the nav screen...that was ridiculous because it's a good idea what they did. These guys are almost seemed annoyed that they couldn't trash the entire car so they focused on non-issues.

The one good thing they mentioned was the headroom difference with and without the sunroof. It's really annoying that you can't find a well appointed 2SS without a sunroof for sale anywhere.

It also has a backup camera

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by EricTheCamaroGuy

It also has a backup camera

Do I really need to post pics of how bad a back up camera is in the rain or snow? It's really only an assist, which is my point on the technology play. You need some basic visibility.................unless you wipe down your back up camera prior to backing up.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I believe that is the point the No 3 has been trying to hammer down, is that maybe they should have tried to get some of those customers looking for "just a coupe". In fact the car needs to appeal to them. If it just appeals to the enthusiast the car will fail sales wise.

There are other buyers out there that are not enthusiasts, don't care about performance. There are people that just want a coupe, and there isn't really a lot of options out there, Camaro and Mustang being the most popular. Those fringe buyers that want "just a coupe" may go mustang because they find it more liveable,

It is amazing what one bad impression can do on a test drive. My wife wanted a GMC Terrain, but when we test drove it, the way she likes to be seated and the way she likes her mirrors, she did not like the visibility at all, and instantly crossed it off her list.

Note: I didn't say or mean "just a coupe". What I meant was a coupe that had fewer sacrifices. Still a very special car, with very expressive styling and great all around performance (specifically V6 and L4 models). I'm talking about people that want something VERY special, but is easy to live with. Very special doesn't have to mean restricted visibility, high lift over trunks, small trunks and limited rear seat room. People that buy coupes are generally already looking for something more expressive. But expressive could have also meant the following:

An expressive Chevrolet Camaro that improves on everything expected in a Camaro for performance and style that you do on the weekend and at the track, but enhances with technology and usability for the things you do every day.

Could have been this.

All of these could have been addressed/improved over the Gen5 and still had really great styling. Just may not have met the criteria of the Disciples...................MOHRRRRRR............. ....of the same.

[mcsoul]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

"Have your cake and eat it, too" scenario...So it's up to the Camaro team to decide what's most important based on their own expertise and enthusiast/customer input. It's called trade-offs.

Exactly, 95% of that car (Cake and eat it too) exist, it's called the 911 Turbo S, and except for rear seating and price it excels almost everywhere.

[DrkPhx]

Another review (this one from a performance website) ripping on the same issues mentioned here. This comment about the exterior styling, however I agree with. I really like the 6th gen, but I was hoping for a bolder design.

But we wish that the exterior design had taken more chances and put some distance between the new and the old. The 2016 Camaro is such a big jump ahead in every way from the inside looking out that it deserves to be just as striking from the outside looking in.

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/car-fe...vrolet-camaro/

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Do I really need to post pics of how bad a back up camera is in the rain or snow? It's really only an assist, which is my point on the technology play. You need some basic visibility.................unless you wipe down your back up camera prior to backing up.

Agreed. I drive mine in the winter and snow regularly. After a good cruise, the lens becomes smeared with snow and salt. I make it a point to wipe it off after every drive quickly as I leave the garage...but it still occurs.

However, mirrors, a sense of spacial awareness and the proximity sensors help me (personally), a ton in backing into a space. Easier than my father's Silverado...I can't see where the step/trailer hitch stop...hit the garage door once (lightly) by mistake. ...But I don't drive that vehicle every day.

Originally Posted by Number 3

All of these could have been addressed/improved over the Gen5 and still had really great styling. Just may not have met the criteria of the Disciples...................MOHRRRRRR............. ....of the same.

I actually don't think the disciples are leaned on nearly as much as they used to be. For whatever that's worth.

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

Another review (this one from a performance website) ripping on the same issues mentioned here. This comment about the exterior styling, however I agree with. I really like the 6th gen, but I was hoping for a bolder design.

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/car-fe...vrolet-camaro/

I absolutely love the styling of the 6th gen...I think it blends everything we love about the 5th and the sculpted, modern image of the new Stingray....But I can't deny LSXtv their opinion there. It is not a drastic departure from the old one.

But I say - why fix what isn't broken...look at the design philosophy of Aston Martin and Porsche...unless you're a die-hard, it's difficult to easily tell remodels apart. But they all look gorgeous.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Agreed. I drive mine in the winter and snow regularly. After a good cruise, the lens becomes smeared with snow and salt. I make it a point to wipe it off after every drive quickly as I leave the garage...but it still occurs.

However, mirrors, a sense of spacial awareness and the proximity sensors help me (personally), a ton in backing into a space. Easier than my father's Silverado...I can't see where the step/trailer hitch stop...hit the garage door once (lightly) by mistake. ...But I don't drive that vehicle every day.


I actually don't think the disciples are leaned on nearly as much as they used to be. For whatever that's worth.



I absolutely love the styling of the 6th gen...I think it blends everything we love about the 5th and the sculpted, modern image of the new Stingray....But I can't deny LSXtv their opinion there. It is not a drastic departure from the old one.

But I say - why fix what isn't broken...look at the design philosophy of Aston Martin and Porsche...unless you're a die-hard, it's difficult to easily tell remodels apart. But they all look gorgeous.

I heard they consulted for the Gen6. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe GM would have executed on that feedback if they weren't already going there.

The issue of don't fix what isn't broken would have been ok. Problem was they made a few things slightly worse from what was already broken. And don't get us started on the fact that most novices can barely tell the Gen5 and 6 apart

[ssrs2lt]

Still haven't driven a 6th gen, but that video of the guy trying sit in the backseat lsxtv reinforces the lack of urgency hahaha. Im now wondering if ive seen a 6th gen but just haven't realized I've seen one. I'm excited for the performance upgrades so I will be looking..

[suzook]

Originally Posted by ssrs2lt

Still haven't driven a 6th gen, but that video of the guy trying sit in the backseat lsxtv reinforces the lack of urgency hahaha. Im now wondering if ive seen a 6th gen but just haven't realized I've seen one. I'm excited for the performance upgrades so I will be looking..

You would instantly know its a 6gen. In person they look alot different. I dont think pictures do the 6thgen justice. I absolutely love what Chevrolet did inside AND out. And I am sick and tired about hearing about visibility issues. I dont find it being that bad, maybe because I am coming from a 5thgen and gotten used to it?

[tswilie]

This is a great thread. Here is my perspective on the visibility brewhaha........Let me first say I do like the look of the 6th Gen and do plan on buying one. I went to the "find new roads" tour in Orlando on October 31st and sat in a few of them. I love the fact that the car went on a 200 lb diet and they dropped the vette motor in without detuning it. When it comes to visibility, I care more about forward and side visibility than back. It may have been a bridge too far to make the dash lower and lower the door sills. I do think of the Tim Allen COPO Camaro featured on Jay Leno's site. I realize this is probably a 150k custom car, but...........The 68 Camaro, weighing in at 3100 pounds with an LS7 under the hood is intoxicating. My point is that car has good visibility and is a good size. Maybe it just takes more volume to put it the safety and Nanny crap of todays cars and we just couldn't fit it in this size of car. My point is if they could have lowered the dash cowl around the steering wheel and the door sills an inch or 2 I think it would make a big difference. I do plan on wedging golf clubs in the trunk with the back seat down if I have to.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by tswilie

This is a great thread. Here is my perspective on the visibility brewhaha........Let me first say I do like the look of the 6th Gen and do plan on buying one. I went to the "find new roads" tour in Orlando on October 31st and sat in a few of them. I love the fact that the car went on a 200 lb diet and they dropped the vette motor in without detuning it. When it comes to visibility, I care more about forward and side visibility than back. It may have been a bridge too far to make the dash lower and lower the door sills. I do think of the Tim Allen COPO Camaro featured on Jay Leno's site. I realize this is probably a 150k custom car, but...........The 68 Camaro, weighing in at 3100 pounds with an LS7 under the hood is intoxicating. My point is that car has good visibility and is a good size. Maybe it just takes more volume to put it the safety and Nanny crap of todays cars and we just couldn't fit it in this size of car. My point is if they could have lowered the dash cowl around the steering wheel and the door sills an inch or 2 I think it would make a big difference. I do plan on wedging golf clubs in the trunk with the back seat down if I have to.

YES...I have been saying this for awhile. Maybe make the rear side windows a little bit bigger, too. And if they did, I don't think it would take away any aggressiveness of the looks at all.