[Classic Man]

Is turning AFM off an option?

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Classic Man

Is turning AFM off an option?

Not without an aftermarket tune, or plug in Range device. The manuals do not have AFM...just the automatics.

[SSport16]

Originally Posted by GMapologists

It's not my opinion. It's a fact. The 6spd stick is excellent, but the A8 is terrible when manually shifted and it's only decent when left in drive 100% of the time. That's why I was forced to choose the manual for my 2016 1SS. If you go shift a PDK equipped car for yourself, then you will understand.

Terrible? There is nothing terrible about this A8! Decent when left in drive? That can not be further from the truth, this transmission is a beast, I love it!

[MikeyCamaro]

For comparison, here's a paddle shift view of the A8 in the Challenger:

https://youtu.be/dCliRKw02Ig

So for those who think a non-DCT can't shift quick with the paddles, that's just not true. Also keep in mind this video is of a Scat Pack. The SRT and Hellcat actually shift a little faster than this because Scat Packs don't have the 120ms Track mode.

Not bragging, boasting, or otherwise trolling. Just saying I don't see why this couldn't be improved with software/tuning.

Mike

[GMapologists]

Anyone who think the A8 is a great transmission, or thinks a torque converter can shift as fast as a DCT, needs to go drive a PDK for themselves and stop being a fan boy that relies on marketing material for their info. Every hypercar runs a DCT, and not one supercar runs a torque converter for a reason. If you can't shift, or don't want to, the A8 is a decent torque converter trans when left in drive 100% of the time. But, no one who has driven a PDK will ever say that the A8 is a great transmission, because it's not. That's why I was forced to order my 2016 1SS with a stick.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by MikeyCamaro

The ZF A8 in the Challenger is near instantaneous on both up and downshifts and it's not a DCT so I don't see why this one couldn't be just as fast since the specs for the shift times seem comparable. I noticed that the Corvette A8 seemed to have quite a bit of shift lag from paddle tap to actual shift in this video (skip to 4:15). I don't think it's quite a full second but probably 500 to 750ms:

https://youtu.be/eoBrAydXK28

Using the paddles in my Challenger, it's instantaneous, or at least if there's any delay, it's undetectable and is probably close to the ~160ms spec. I think your shift spec for your A8 is close to the same so I don't understand why there would be such a delay in initiating the shift??? I would suspect tuning (maybe TQ management) could correct that?

Mike

I drove an '16 Charger RT the other day and I can tell you, the shifts were not as fast as they are in my 328i or the videos I've seen of the Dodge units. Why? I think it has to do with adaptive shift. This Charger had less than 100 miles on it, and since it was a demo you know all kinds of inconsistent drivers have been in it. I think this is the problem with people test driving the A8 Camaros vs people taking delivery of their ordered cars. We need some actual owners who have got 500 miles or more on their cars to take some video. I've heard the same complaints about lag in the paddles on the BMW forums, but I never have any appreciable delay with mine.

[MikeyCamaro]

Originally Posted by GMapologists

Anyone who think the A8 is a great transmission, or thinks a torque converter can shift as fast as a DCT, needs to go drive a PDK for themselves and stop being a fan boy that relies on marketing material for their info. Every hypercar runs a DCT, and not one supercar runs a torque converter for a reason. If you can't shift, or don't want to, the A8 is a decent torque converter trans when left in drive 100% of the time. But, no one who has driven a PDK will ever say that the A8 is a great transmission, because it's not. That's why I was forced to order my 2016 1SS with a stick.

The ZF A8 only uses the torque converter to transition from a stop to moving. The torque converter is locked under all conditions (0 - 100% throttle) above 18 MPH and unlocked below 18 MPH. So a torque converter doesn't need to be the death of the quick shift either!

Originally Posted by SuperSound

I drove an '16 Charger RT the other day and I can tell you, the shifts were not as fast as they are in my 328i or the videos I've seen of the Dodge units. Why? I think it has to do with adaptive shift.

I'm not a fan of the ZF adaptive crap. It does cause inconsistencies with shift patterns. But here we're talking about paddle delay and I've never seen that affected by adaptives.

Mike

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by MikeyCamaro

The ZF A8 only uses the torque converter to transition from a stop to moving. The torque converter is locked under all conditions (0 - 100% throttle) above 18 MPH and unlocked below 18 MPH. So a torque converter doesn't need to be the death of the quick shift either!



I'm not a fan of the ZF adaptive crap. It does cause inconsistencies with shift patterns. But here we're talking about paddle delay and I've never seen that affected by adaptives.

Mike

No it affects the paddles too. You are not actually in control of either of these transmissions in any mode. The TCU is and it only allows what is has been programmed too. I know I was shocked driving that Charger because I expected it to behave like the A8 in mine. I wonder if pulling the battery terminals would have made it reset.

[MikeyCamaro]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

No it affects the paddles too. You are not actually in control of either of these transmissions in any mode. The TCU is and it only allows what is has been programmed too. I know I was shocked driving that Charger because I expected it to behave like the A8 in mine. I wonder if pulling the battery terminals would have made it reset.

My Challenger doesn't behave that way. The adaptives affect when the shifts occur and to some extent how firm they are. You can see the change if you have to drive slow in traffic for a while versus when you are doing spirited driving. But in a year and a half, I've never seen a change in manual mode: the paddles always change the gears nearly instantly and the shift firmness is only determined by the transmission mode (street, sport, or track). And in Track mode, it seems to max everything out, shifting as fast as possible regardless of throttle position. Maybe the Charger programming differs some from the Challenger. Or the SRT behaves differently. Who knows. But mine does exactly what you tell it in manual mode, when you tell it, so I'd say you are in control. Except maybe for the one override: "shift not allowed" when the shift would cause an above-redline condition.

Mike

[Cautionary tale]

Originally Posted by MikeyCamaro

The ZF A8 in the Challenger is near instantaneous on both up and downshifts and it's not a DCT so I don't see why this one couldn't be just as fast since the specs for the shift times seem comparable. I noticed that the Corvette A8 seemed to have quite a bit of shift lag from paddle tap to actual shift in this video (skip to 4:15). I don't think it's quite a full second but probably 500 to 750ms:

https://youtu.be/eoBrAydXK28

Using the paddles in my Challenger, it's instantaneous, or at least if there's any delay, it's undetectable and is probably close to the ~160ms spec. I think your shift spec for your A8 is close to the same so I don't understand why there would be such a delay in initiating the shift??? I would suspect tuning (maybe TQ management) could correct that?

Mike

I don't want to start a war I like the challenger too but from what I've heard from mechanics is that dodge Chrysler trannies are horrible in the long run... but no car is perfect.... two dodge cars I owned tranny fail, one at 41,000... and I don't abuse my cars

[Cautionary tale]

I think the car war already began, let's not turn into another camaro vs. Mustang thing, can we say fight club...

[1968ss350]

Originally Posted by alfonsoj23

To his explanation... He says that it basically helps the car run faster..?
Honestly he knows pretty well about cars but this is the first time I feel like he has no idea what he's saying and doesn't wanna accept it... Lol m

Every performance car has a limited slip. Also called positraction or traction lock. Many different names for the same thing

[ChocoTaco369]

Even in manual mode, you are not shifting the transmission. With an automatic, the transmission always shifts itself. The only way to eliminate that is to get a manual transmission. Paddle shifters will never be instantaneous because you're still not shifting, you're just sending an electronic signal that you want the transmission to shift itself now, then you have to wait for the trans to actually do it. Buying an automatic transmission and complaining that you can't shift it yourself is silly. There is no way to manually shift the A8 transmission. It's an oxymoron.

[CAPerformance16]

Manual trans guy here. But the A8 is nice. Takes some getting used too manually shifting it. We were looking for track times so the A8 was the obvious answer.