[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by filth_e_mcnasti

I don't know. I know it's apples to oranges, but my Dad got 10,000 dollars off his last truck. I highly doubt they are only making 2k off the car. Between dealer kick backs they could likely easily still break even at 40,000.

10k on a truck is very common.

[drivingagain]

Originally Posted by fastball

Uh, how is invoice 45 when MSRP as built on chevy.com is 43,200?

$43,195 exactly, including destination.

$40k out the door for a car with a $43k sticker is really not that outrageous. My stepdad bought his $24,000 Buick Verano for under $20k out the door - that was BEFORE he redeemed his GM card points. After points he paid about $18k all together.

You are right on the 43,195 sticker. Sorry was not thinking no options except sunroof. Although the Buick verano is not a good example vs a camaro for pricing. Invoice to msrp is about $1700-1800 on this car. Taxes are close to $25-2700 and you have 8% sales tax so closer to $3,200, plus tag and dealer fee. Still doubt you are going to get $4-5k off a 2016 camaro.

With previous poster yes trucks can get 10k off because they almost all start at 30k for a base 2 door 2wd v6 now. There is a lot more profit built into trucks because truck buyers pay it.

The dealers in central florida are bigger and have more allotment. The outside dealers can barely even keep an ss. I know of 5 people waiting for a manual ss to come in the door.

Just my thoughts and what I see.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by filth_e_mcnasti

I don't know. I know it's apples to oranges, but my Dad got 10,000 dollars off his last truck. I highly doubt they are only making 2k off the car. Between dealer kick backs they could likely easily still break even at 40,000.

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

10k on a truck is very common.

Exactly.

You CANNOT compare savings on a fullsize truck, and then carry over those same expected savings to other vehicles.

For one thing full size trucks are priced ridiculously high with their MSRP so that they can offer these "amazing" deals....not to mention many of these are the brand's volume sellers, meaning their costs is being very spread out.

[Doc]

The Camaro is a high-profile, glamorous, attention-getting car. If there are cars sitting on the lots, discounts being offered and incentives already on a car of this reputation and type that's only been available for a couple of months that's not a good sign. Don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining about the car; it's a fantastic machine worth every penny. But it appears to have a problem already and as I see it, this problem is a simple one; sticker-shock.

Which brings this conversation up again:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420754

I think GM figured since they saw so many 5th gen owners pouring money into modding their cars, they just thought it would be a great performance move to build all that and more right into the car up front. Great idea; for the performance enthusiasts. But there's an uncomfortable side-effect.

If I add mods later; intake, wheels, headers, exhaust, etc. then that's something I budgeted for as a one-time purchase. The car payment and insurance payment is still based on the original sticker-price I paid for the car. If all those expenses are built into the car up front, the sticker price is higher and so is the insurance, which makes the monthly payment higher. And that's where the discomfort is.

People aren't excitement buying; they're taking pause and thinking about it carefully which is not good for sales. I think it's the impact of the monthly cost that's making people hesitate. It happened to me; I wanted a new daily driver to replace my aging Toyota. I wanted a new Camaro but a 2LT V6 with automatic was going to be about $40k with the few items I wanted on it. Did I really want to spend that much money for a car I would basically just be driving to work and have sit in the parking lot? I wound up buying a new 2016 Mazda6 with automatic for $21,393. It's solid, no squeaks or rattles (even in single digit temps), fit and finish is excellent, seats are quite comfortable, beautifully styled interior, good power, averaging 30 mpg in an all stop-and-go commute, 4 doors, 4 usable seats... just what I needed and more. For about half the price of the Camaro I was considering.

This is a problem that GM needs to take a serious look at. It's great to make the Camaro a fantastic high-performance sports GT, but it's now moved up to a price level that has pushed it into a new demographic which is basically the Corvette demographic. The Camaro that used to be the affordable performance car that wasn't as high performance as its more expensive brother (and not as expensive either) is now just as capable and basically just as expensive. That's great, but what about the demographic this new model just left behind? What if they want it but just can't afford the monthly payments? Where do they go? What do they buy? Yes they can buy a used Camaro but that does absolutely nothing for GM's current or future income needs.

That market the new Camaro has just left behind is still there; GM just needs to take a hard look at what they're doing and the consequences, and decide if they want to keep the "affordable performance car" crowd or not. A Cruze, Malibu, or whatever else they've got isn't it; they need something that has the exciting looks of a Camaro but priced down into the "affordable performance" region again. It doesn't need to be and shouldn't be a Nurburgring champion; it just needs to push you back into your seat when you push down on the gas pedal. It needs to look cool and 'high performance' without necessarily being high performance or high cost.

Yer basic pony car; again.

What's happening right now with the 2016 doesn't bode well for future survivability. The price isn't going to go down in the future, it's only going to go up so if the excitement buyers aren't buying now at the current price point... what does that mean for the future? Was the 5th gen the last true Camaro? The last true "affordable performance" car from GM? Why is GM spending hundreds of millions developing a self-driving car? Who the hell's been asking for that?? Anybody??

C'mon GM... you have everything you need; do you have the vision and will to do it?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

I think the big difference between the 6th gen and the 5th gen launch is there isn't a huge pent up demand. There was no Camaro for a while so people really wanted to get one. Now there's great deals on the 5th gen to be had or spend more and get an amazing 6th gen. Plus this time of year is tougher on performance cars. As production ramps up and the turbo 4 becomes available I think they'll do fine. The car looks great and is a performance beast in all levels.

This ^ you can not compare the launch of the 5th gen to the 6th gen. You went from no Camaro from 03-09. Huge pent up demand.

Originally Posted by Zack46

Well, on my 2LT RS V6, automatic tranny, I ordered all the options, except the NPP exhaust. It came to $39,600. This is how I wanted my car. I wanted all the bells and whistles. I KNEW what everything cost from the moment I ordered it. I did my homework. I missed out on all the goodies when I got the new 2014 impala LS. My mistake. I wasn't going to let that happen this time. AND quite frankly, everything happens for a reason. The 2014 Impala LS prepared me to order the 6th gen Camaro 2LT RS V6. This whole experience will prepare to order the SS in the future. But right now, I couldn't be more happy. I love the hyper blue. Best car I have ever owned.

I am glad you like your car, the only problem I have with it, is that seems to be all the dealers near me ordered was fully loaded models. And they have been sitting. Sticker shock can turn people away fast, they see a LT Camaro with a sticker approaching 40K they might go elsewhere, especially if that is all the dealer has on the lot.

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

and I'm very happy for you! but keep in mind, unlike you, there are many who also want the exact same level of luxury but at that price, the car ends up out of reach for a lot of people. the Camaro fans might still get it, but those on the fence cross shopping with the competitors are gonna end up going with whats in their budget, and if that's a mustang or challenger, then bye bye possible 2016 Camaro owner that coulda been.

Agreed

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Probably will not sell as well as the Mustang, but I think it'll sell well enough.

Yep. it is a fantastic car, it will sell well. I personally do not think it will sell as well as the 5th gen though. I know there is a ton of stuff standard, and when you tick option boxes all cars get expensive, but when I look at my local dealer and see a 2LT for over 40K and the 2SS is 47.5K I personally think being able to option the cars to that price point, might hurt sales in the long run.

[01pewterz28]

Do I like the 6th Gen yes will I buy one nope my priorities have changed I never drive my 4th Gen (reason why I sold it), and I never drive my 5th Gen (it's been 8 month) and my 5th will be on the market. For me it's time to move on from the Camaro and the hobby.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by 01pewterz28

Do I like the 6th Gen yes will I buy one nope my priorities have changed I never drive my 4th Gen (reason why I sold it), and I never drive my 5th Gen (it's been 8 month) and my 5th will be on the market. For me it's time to move on from the Camaro and the hobby.

What's next?

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Doc

The Camaro is a high-profile, glamorous, attention-getting car. If there are cars sitting on the lots, discounts being offered and incentives already on a car of this reputation and type that's only been available for a couple of months that's not a good sign. Don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining about the car; it's a fantastic machine worth every penny. But it appears to have a problem already and as I see it, this problem is a simple one; sticker-shock.

Which brings this conversation up again:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420754

I think GM figured since they saw so many 5th gen owners pouring money into modding their cars, they just thought it would be a great performance move to build all that and more right into the car up front. Great idea; for the performance enthusiasts. But there's an uncomfortable side-effect.

If I add mods later; intake, wheels, headers, exhaust, etc. then that's something I budgeted for as a one-time purchase. The car payment and insurance payment is still based on the original sticker-price I paid for the car. If all those expenses are built into the car up front, the sticker price is higher and so is the insurance, which makes the monthly payment higher. And that's where the discomfort is.

People aren't excitement buying; they're taking pause and thinking about it carefully which is not good for sales. I think it's the impact of the monthly cost that's making people hesitate. It happened to me; I wanted a new daily driver to replace my aging Toyota. I wanted a new Camaro but a 2LT V6 with automatic was going to be about $40k with the few items I wanted on it. Did I really want to spend that much money for a car I would basically just be driving to work and have sit in the parking lot? I wound up buying a new 2016 Mazda6 with automatic for $21,393. It's solid, no squeaks or rattles (even in single digit temps), fit and finish is excellent, seats are quite comfortable, beautifully styled interior, good power, averaging 30 mpg in an all stop-and-go commute, 4 doors, 4 usable seats... just what I needed and more. For about half the price of the Camaro I was considering.

This is a problem that GM needs to take a serious look at. It's great to make the Camaro a fantastic high-performance sports GT, but it's now moved up to a price level that has pushed it into a new demographic which is basically the Corvette demographic. The Camaro that used to be the affordable performance car that wasn't as high performance as its more expensive brother (and not as expensive either) is now just as capable and basically just as expensive. That's great, but what about the demographic this new model just left behind? What if they want it but just can't afford the monthly payments? Where do they go? What do they buy? Yes they can buy a used Camaro but that does absolutely nothing for GM's current or future income needs.

That market the new Camaro has just left behind is still there; GM just needs to take a hard look at what they're doing and the consequences, and decide if they want to keep the "affordable performance car" crowd or not. A Cruze, Malibu, or whatever else they've got isn't it; they need something that has the exciting looks of a Camaro but priced down into the "affordable performance" region again. It doesn't need to be and shouldn't be a Nurburgring champion; it just needs to push you back into your seat when you push down on the gas pedal. It needs to look cool and 'high performance' without necessarily being high performance or high cost.

Yer basic pony car; again.

What's happening right now with the 2016 doesn't bode well for future survivability. The price isn't going to go down in the future, it's only going to go up so if the excitement buyers aren't buying now at the current price point... what does that mean for the future? Was the 5th gen the last true Camaro? The last true "affordable performance" car from GM? Why is GM spending hundreds of millions developing a self-driving car? Who the hell's been asking for that?? Anybody??

C'mon GM... you have everything you need; do you have the vision and will to do it?

You and the thread you linked bring up excellent points. Part of my firm stance at my price point is that the more features and higher trim a car - or anything - goes, the bigger the profit margin built into the MSRP.

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

What's next?

At this time nothing going to spend time with my girls and watch them grow up and spend most of our time at the Mouse House since we purchased DVC last year.

[drivingagain]

Doc- I do not agree with this whole rant. How do you compare a fully loaded all options clicked 40k V6 Camaro and then go buy a Mazda 6. These cars are not in the same league of performance. A Mazda 6 is a family sedan. Yes the speed 6 gave it some performance but still front wheel drive and the speed had horrible gas mileage.

I think for the all the people here gripping about the price quit focusing on fully loaded models. Really who wants a performance car and says they are car guys and gets a v6 fully loaded Camaro? I bought a 1SS and would not change it for anything else under 60k. In fact for my needs not much under 100k I would change trade this car for and DAILY DRIVE it! I plan on getting 200k miles on this and did not see any money wasted for what I want.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by drivingagain

You are right on the 43,195 sticker. Sorry was not thinking no options except sunroof. Although the Buick verano is not a good example vs a camaro for pricing. Invoice to msrp is about $1700-1800 on this car. Taxes are close to $25-2700 and you have 8% sales tax so closer to $3,200, plus tag and dealer fee. Still doubt you are going to get $4-5k off a 2016 camaro.

With previous poster yes trucks can get 10k off because they almost all start at 30k for a base 2 door 2wd v6 now. There is a lot more profit built into trucks because truck buyers pay it.

The dealers in central florida are bigger and have more allotment. The outside dealers can barely even keep an ss. I know of 5 people waiting for a manual ss to come in the door.

Just my thoughts and what I see.

I could tell you what I think dealers can do with their fees, but then I'd get banned from the forum lol

That's why I always offer an out the door price, negotiate out the door price, and let the dealer play checkers with the numbers. To make them look however they want to make them look, I really don't care so long as it's all within my out the door price.

Between my parents, myself, and my girlfriend I've been in on and watched negotiations of at least 10 new car purchases in my life going back to 1985 which is my first memory when my Mom bought her 1985 Regal. No games. No BS. Here's my price, take it or leave it, or I'll just go to someone else who will.

[leadfoot93]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I am glad you like your car, the only problem I have with it, is that seems to be all the dealers near me ordered was fully loaded models. And they have been sitting. Sticker shock can turn people away fast, they see a LT Camaro with a sticker approaching 40K they might go elsewhere, especially if that is all the dealer has on the lot.

This is the exact reason I went and ordered an 1SS. I knew the dealers wouldn't be ordering them. I love my 1SS

[drivingagain]

Originally Posted by fastball

You and the thread you linked bring up excellent points. Part of my firm stance at my price point is that the more features and higher trim a car - or anything - goes, the bigger the profit margin built into the MSRP.

You did not add any options. It is a 2ss with sunroof. if you optioned the car out to most 2ss owners on here then I would agree there is more room. Look at an invoice and you can figure this out quickly. Buying a car is not rocket science. I sold cars for many years and can write your deal in my sleep of what you will get any time soon.

[drivingagain]

Originally Posted by leadfoot93

This is the exact reason I went and ordered an 1SS. I knew the dealers wouldn't be ordering them. I love my 1SS

Glad to hear from another person who bought the car and what there impression is.

I think some people are hoping this car does not sell so well to get into their budget. I still say good luck. Look at the orders pouring into the other threads daily. I do agree with dealers fully optioning out a v6 Camaro. What is the point? Although the power is close to the 4th gen v8 out the box.

Sure give the model 2 more years and will see the discounts you are looking for. The 2016 is going to be short model run and their are alot of people waiting for the 2017 model because it is Camaro's 50th year anniversary.