[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by SkipNWis

Here's how I look at it <Lets Compare it to SEX>>............................................. . SEX with a CONDOM = AUTOMATIC SEX without a CONDOM = Manual. In one sexual in counter you " ACTUALLY FEEL the experience MORE it's that easy THE END

:threadjacked

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

When you are driving a manual transmission, the biggest difference will always be the shifting of the gears. Imagine driving with a blindfold on - the transmission is the most varying part of the equation. A Camaro with an A8 is going to behave similarly to more expensive comfort-riding cars. Take the 5th Gens for instance - the M6 and A6's feel completely different. The M6 is clunky and bumpy. With the A6, you may as well be driving a more powerful CTS.


I'm not sure what this means. A fully-outfitted 2SS is going to cost in a similar price range to many Lexus models. $50,000 will get you a high-powered luxury car. As long as you're not sitting in the back seat, the Camaro A8 2SS is going to ride a lot like a sports sedan. Refined, smooth and detached. That's not the driving experience I want in a Camaro, and an A8 will remove the rawness of the car whereas the same old clunky, bumpy TR6060 adds a welcomed element of discomfort and attentiveness that helps make it more muscular and personable, even if it's technically slower on paper, so you don't forget you're driving a Toyota Avalon on your bumper-to-bumper commute.


The Camaro name is about an attitude. It's not all about performance, it's more about personality. These cars are becoming so refined they're losing their "muscle car" heritage and they're turning into 2-door sports sedans. I would not consider the Camaro A8 a muscle car anymore, it's closer to a European sports car with its effortless driving, cushy comfort and AFM. The TR6060 helps gain some of the heritage back by adding discomfort, unpredictability, wildness and personality into the equation, which really is what makes a muscle car a muscle car. The A8 is just too mushy and impersonal for me. The L99/A6 was even worse, honestly.

I strongly disagree. This is where you totally forget it's a Camaro and you may as well have bought a Camry. When you're stuck in heavy traffic just plugging along, the clanky drivetrain and constant shifting is sometimes all that reminds me that I'm not driving the GMC Acadia I drive at work.

I think you summed it up nicely. Essentially, with the manual you are forced to actually drive the car and if you enjoy the actual driving process then a manual transmission will offer you a more intimate connection to the car and the driving experience. If you just want to get from point a to b in style and spend most of your time in traffic then the A8 will make more sense for most since you will just be excercising your left calf muscle most of the time. I also agree that these traditional muscle cars have become so refined and loaded with features that you can indeed compare them to luxury sports sedans. Now that a loaded Camaro is reaching $50k now, I would figure many potential buyers will cross shop other sports sedans. Heck, I just read Infiniti will be releasing a 400hp twin turbo V6 Q50 next year. It is not just about the performance anymore. These cars are way too fast for the street anyway. It has to be about the total driving experience, technology, efficiency, styling, reliability, culture, etc. to create differentiation.

[priusowners]

Found the CAGS delete hack on jalopnik--appears to be a 2.2K ohm .5 watt
resistor
but I'm gonna try the $9.99 fuse-thingy seen on "corvette mods" site
If it turns out to be too elegant to use on my G6 I can always do the DIY
Letya know

[Clawson]

Originally Posted by SkipNWis

Muh Manual!

Kid friendly version...

[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think you summed it up nicely. Essentially, with the manual you are forced to actually drive the car and if you enjoy the actual driving process then a manual transmission will offer you a more intimate connection to the car and the driving experience. If you just want to get from point a to b in style and spend most of your time in traffic then the A8 will make more sense for most since you will just be excercising your left calf muscle most of the time. I also agree that these traditional muscle cars have become so refined and
loaded with features that you can indeed compare them to luxury sports sedans. Now that a loaded Camaro is reaching $50k now, I would figure many potential buyers will cross shop other sports sedans. Heck, I just read Infiniti will be releasing a 400hp twin turbo V6 Q50 next year. It is not just about the performance anymore. These cars are way too fast for the street anyway. It has to be about the total driving experience, technology, efficiency, styling, reliability, culture, etc. to create differentiation.

You guys are obviously not aware we live where we can make our own choices, I drive manual for a living and have had more than my fair share of shifts, probably have shifted more in one month than most of you will in your life . If I want to pay the extra and enjoy a great shifting 8 speed go faster more consistently get better fuel economy and still be able to paddle shift, that's my right sure the 6 speed is a great Trans . But that doesn't mean you have to bash other people because they choose what they like . This thread was started because someone wanted a review. For me I WANTED A A8 for the reasons that I like about it , I think the A8 is a amazing Trans and love ALL ASPECTS OF IT, BEST TRANS I'VE EVER had the privilege to own. It's all about personal preference and what YOU like as a individual. This is the free world Done playing with children

[camaro1&6]

Oh yeah last comment, pull your 6sp up along side my A8 end result YOU LOSE

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

You guys are obviously not aware we live where we can make our own choices, I drive manual for a living and have had more than my fair share of shifts, probably have shifted more in one month than most of you will in your life . If I want to pay the extra and enjoy a great shifting 8 speed go faster more consistently get better fuel economy and still be able to paddle shift, that's my right sure the 6 speed is a great Trans . But that doesn't mean you have to bash other people because they choose what they like . This thread was started because someone wanted a review. For me I WANTED A A8 for the reasons that I like about it , I think the A8 is a amazing Trans and love ALL ASPECTS OF IT, BEST TRANS I'VE EVER had the privilege to own. It's all about personal preference and what YOU like as a individual. This is the free world Done playing with children

No troll feeding here. You seem very passionate about choosing the A8 and others are passionate about the driving experience the MN6 offers. No right or wrong here, just a preference. I was just in a agreement with the description the poster made about the driving experience between the two transmissions. For me, the manual provides for a more engaging, raw experience, which is enhanced by the NPP exhaust. I only drive 5000-7500 miles per year and I don't make a traffic congested commute every day so the MN6 is worth it to me. If I had a typical traffic congested daily commute then I would prefer the smooth cruising action of the A8 vs. a left leg workout. Heck, I would probably prefer a a new Honda Civic with sensing technology that can practically drive the car for me.

[Scott5000]

Thanks for all the comments everyone. Many pros and cons for going auto or manual. I've owned many sports cars over my lifetime since I'm a certified car nut. Here's some of my observations based on past cars:

The TR6060 that I had in a 2008 Z51 had some issues with the second gear synchro, but that was the first year in production and it seems they worked those problems out.

I do love shifting, but it can get old in traffic. Luckily I have two other cars in the stable that are autos so I can switch back and forth as needed.

The new A8s are amazing, but you do lose some of that integral sports car interaction IMO. Paddles do not make up for the extra pedal and a shifter.

The A8 will be faster from a stop or dig, but I bet the manual is just as fast from a roll up to triple digits. Will be interesting to see once we get some results in a legal setting of course.

I am actually glad that the MN6 has a deactivated AFM. I've owned many vehicles with this "feature" and the best I can tell, it saves around 1.5 MPG.

The AFM bads include unwanted periodic exhaust sounds/harmonics. My 2007 Tahoe with a 5.3 had AFM lifter issues around 30k miles, but again maybe GM has resolved the bugs with this tech.

So all in all goods and bads no matter what the choice, but since I have decided to go with a manual 2SS, I primarily was interested in everyone's recent experience with the newer build TR6060s. Thanks again fellow Camaro owner brothers & sisters!

[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by Scott5000

Thanks for all the comments everyone. Many pros and cons for going auto or manual. I've owned many sports cars over my lifetime since I'm a certified car nut. Here's some of my observations based on past cars:

The TR6060 that I had in a 2008 Z51 had some issues with the second gear synchro, but that was the first year in production and it seems they worked those problems out.

I do love shifting, but it can get old in traffic. Luckily I have two other cars in the stable that are autos so I can switch back and forth as needed.

The new A8s are amazing, but you do lose some of that integral sports car interaction IMO. Paddles do not make up for the extra pedal and a shifter.

The A8 will be faster from a stop or dig, but I bet the manual is just as fast from a roll up to triple digits. Will be interesting to see once we get some results in a legal setting of course.

I am actually glad that the MN6 has a deactivated AFM. I've owned many vehicles with this "feature" and the best I can tell, it saves around 1.5 MPG.

The AFM bads include unwanted periodic exhaust sounds/harmonics. My 2007 Tahoe with a 5.3 had AFM lifter issues around 30k miles, but again maybe GM has resolved the bugs with this tech.

So all in all goods and bads no matter what the choice, but since I have decided to go with a manual 2SS, I primarily was interested in everyone's recent experience with the newer build TR6060s. Thanks again fellow Camaro owner brothers & sisters!

You made a great choice because that's what you wanted . I apologize if I over stepped, I just didn't like the bashing of others and myself that own a A8. I think either way you can't go wrong both Trans are amazing.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think you summed it up nicely. Essentially, with the manual you are forced to actually drive the car and if you enjoy the actual driving process then a manual transmission will offer you a more intimate connection to the car and the driving experience. If you just want to get from point a to b in style and spend most of your time in traffic then the A8 will make more sense for most since you will just be excercising your left calf muscle most of the time. I also agree that these traditional muscle cars have become so refined and loaded with features that you can indeed compare them to luxury sports sedans. Now that a loaded Camaro is reaching $50k now, I would figure many potential buyers will cross shop other sports sedans. Heck, I just read Infiniti will be releasing a 400hp twin turbo V6 Q50 next year. It is not just about the performance anymore. These cars are way too fast for the street anyway. It has to be about the total driving experience, technology, efficiency, styling, reliability, culture, etc. to create differentiation.

Yessir, you pretty much have it down.

The clunky, notchy-when-cold TR6060 transmission is one of the only things left that's "muscle" about the Camaro, at least in stock or near-stock form. The A8's are too refined and are bordering on luxury sports sedan territory - it's a big reason I don't (and most don't) consider the Dodge Charger a muscle car. That's why I want the M6. It's unrefined enough to remind you that you're driving a Camaro, and that may be lost on you during the daily grind with your uber-smooth A8 with plastic paddle shifters. The TR6060 is my favorite part of the 5th Gen because it's the only thing that gives the car any rawness. The 4th Gen I owned was so raw and muscle despite all its other shortcomings and cheap construction, and that feel is totally lost on the 5th Gen except for the clickity-clankity drivetrain slack and cold start notchiness of the TR6060. It reminds you you're driving a Camaro.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

You made a great choice because that's what you wanted . I apologize if I over stepped, I just didn't like the bashing of others and myself that own a A8. I think either way you can't go wrong both Trans are amazing.

I think it's totally fine if someone bought an A8 over an M6. It's their money, get what you desire from it. However, the two cars cannot be compared in terms of feel and personality. They're both Camaro's by name, but they behave completely differently. They are two wildly different cars that suit two wildly different types of people. If you purchased an A8, you have a completely different mindset than someone that purchased an M6. That's why seemingly every other thread turns into an "auto VS manual" debate. The two cars aren't even remotely similar in terms of driving experience. It's like having a "Camaro vs Mustang" argument on a forum.

I'd go as far to say a Camaro M6 and Mustang M6 are closer in relation than a Camaro M6 and a Camaro A8 in terms of driving experience.

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

Oh yeah last comment, pull your 6sp up along side my A8 end result YOU LOSE

Depends what you're comparing.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by daytonagary

YES you would love my C7 7 speed. exact same transmission just another gear you don't have to use if you don't want to but traveling on 1000 mile trips at 75 mph and only 1400 rpm is real nice in 7th gear. And it is way up to the right in shift pattern so you can never accidentally get it in 7th unless you really want to.

I wouldn't want it, it's gate is narrower (driven a few) and the extra overdrive gear does nothing for the lower ratios. Plus, it's just more parts to break. It was only put in there for CAFE. From what I've read on Corvette Forums most woud prefer a 6-speed...

[paul84043]

Do you want to drive your car, or do you want to sit and stare blankly at the windshield while the car drives itself.

[hotlap]

I've owned many high performance manuals and automatics. Rowing gears is fun but autos are not emotionless either. There is a sweet spot in the accelerator pedal travel where the power/torque is maximized and it's not when its mashed to the floor. Magical when you hit it and the feeling can't be replicated with a manual.

I've defaulted to manuals other than gen3 when auto was mandated to get the 5.7L. With gen6 I will choose A8. Life is about experiences. I want to experience a A8