[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by el ess A

Amazingly, it's getting harder and harder to find a V6 CTS. 2.0 Turbos are flooding the lots. And sitting there...

Go on any Cadillac dealer and walk up to any 2015 CTS (non-V) and the chance is overwhelmingly high (>90%) that it will come with a 2.0 4-cyl. And they're less expensive than a comparable V6 car by about $2500-3000.

A lot of 2016s are rolling in with 2.0 as well. So, I think we'll see a glut of 4-cylinders, and then GM will tout everyone's buying them when they discount the hell out of them to get them off the lots.

They don't sound horrible when they pass you in downtown traffic at low speeds, though. I had one pass me the other day and it didn't sound like ass, but it definitely wasn't the familiar V6 exhaust sound.

Don't think the 4 cylinders are going to be attracting higher end buyers, at least not anytime soon. Not by my CTS research. Of course, the Camaro may be a completely different story. Time will tell.

Well said. I agree that looking a Cadillac sales is not going to be a strong indicator for the Camaro. People who are shopping Cadillac are going to easily absorb the extra cost for the V-6, so it makes sense that the 4 cyl's are not a big seller there. The Camaro will be different I think. This will be a car that many will buy for the "style" among other things. "performance" is really a vague term, as it means different things to many people. There will be many people that buy this car for the look of it, want it as cheap as they can get it, and will never go over the speed limit on their daily commutes. They will never even think about this Forum, or any other, so we will not hear from them.

[Outlaw77]

I think you will see many of the 4 bangers used in rental companies.

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by Aikidoshadow

The GM ECOTECs are the LS of the 4 cyl world. I have had a few, L61 2.2, LE5 2.4, and LSJ 2.0SC. My buddy has a LNF that makes over 500. The engines are just as stout and reliable as the LS series. My LSJ ran with L99 SS camaros with a pulley and injector swap. The LNF 2.0TC cars have ran in the 350-400 range with just turbo work and tuning.

Forced induction just makes a game changer in the car world. Ask any guy here that has put FI on his camaro, its a different world.

I loved my 04 GTO and now my 10 camaro but 4 cyl engines have the head design and technology behind them that makes them great equipment especially the ECOTECs.

It is much easier to design a 4V head for an I4 than a V motor and inline engines historically have lasted longer than V engines, so there are some upsides to the I4, but then you run into displacement limitations and there is only so much boost you can apply before the heads come off.

[roorback]

4T are great replacements for V6s. I think that's what were talking about with these cars.

I'd never sell my LS1 and get a WRX. Just different cars. I would consider a T4 camaro over the V6 version if the prices were similar.

[Synyster]

If I were in the market for a not V8, I'd consider the I4 over the V6 for sure.

[Moto-Mojo]

Funny, I'm sitting here thinking of the 70's and what must've taken place in muscle car discussion circles...there was the V8 - 260, 289, 302, 327, 350, 383, 390, 400, 409, 427, 428, 454, 460, and probably countless others like American Motors offerings I've long forgotten. But I'm sure those smaller V8's were looked down upon when horsepower junkies met. Lol.

[Moto-Mojo]

Dang, I forgot the mighty Dodge 426 & 440! (among others I'm sure) feel free to add to that list.

[mickss]

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

Funny, I'm sitting here thinking of the 70's and what must've taken place in muscle car discussion circles...there was the V8 - 260, 289, 302, 327, 350, 383, 390, 400, 409, 427, 428, 454, 460, and probably countless others like American Motors offerings I've long forgotten. But I'm sure those smaller V8's were looked down upon when horsepower junkies met. Lol.

The 260, 289, 302 Ford engines you cited started even smaller than that, they were all variants of the 221 V8 in Ford Fairlane and Mercury Meteor, but then again the thinking at the time of the horse power wars of the 60`s was "There`s no replacement for displacement", engine technology of today has pretty much put that thinking to rest as will peoples opinions of 4 cylinders change as the technology improves and evolves.

[CamaroCracka]

I don't think manufacturing tolerances allowed for high boost levels on gas engines back then.

PD and Centi blowers were a far cry from where they are today.

Even in the 80s turbo cars were not intercooled for the most part.

Back then, increasing displacement was probably the best way to increase horsepower, particularly considering 25 cent gas.

[102SS]

Well be prepared to get your doors blown off

As many of you know, Livernois Motorsports started hitting the EcoBoost Mustang hard right from the minute we received our car. Being the First production EB Mustang in the 12's, and then the first to the 11's was no small feat. After reaching these milestones we started concentrating developing our other parts and pieces for the EB Mustang, and of course customer's builds and our products for the other vehicles we support as well.

Earlier this year, we decided to help create, and sponsor the first ever EcoBoost Battle at the NMRA Bowling Green World Finals. We originally did this without the intent of bringing any company cars. Being a company that firmly puts our customers first, it wasn't until less than 2 weeks prior to the event that we decided to give it a go with our prototype version of our Turbo Upgrade we were working on. Unfortunately, the timing just wasn't there to get it completed with Dan Millen having to attend to other matters at the same time as the race, so we decided to take the car to showcase our work so far, and then begin working on it again afterwards.

With The EcoBoost Battle in the record books, we decided to start working on validation of the core components of our Windstorm Turbo Upgrade system on our car. We decided the world was ready to see what we were working on and showcased our turbo upgrade as a new product at SEMA. After winning an international award for product design, we came back from SEMA ready to track test our new upgrade package, and Today was that day.

We reset the World Record for EcoBoost performance. Not only sporting the world's quickest EcoBoost Mustang, it's also the world's quickest EcoBoost powered vehicle. But more importantly, this is no purpose built race car, just an upgraded street car, just as our car has always been.

This Record setting run ended up being a 10.88@122.91, and was achieved with the following upgrades:

Livernois Motorsports Windstorm Turbo Upgrade kit featuring a Precision Turbo 58/58 Ball Bearing Turbo
Livernois Motorsports Snowstorm methanol injection system
Livernois Motorsports Snowstorm Intercooler upgrade
Livernois Motorsports Pro-Series Shortblock
17" Drag wheel/tire combo

What's even more impressive is the list of items we did NOT upgrade, as this car had the following stock parts:

Suspension
Gear
Posi
Axles
Driveshaft
Injectors
Fuel System
Map Sensor
Brakes
Interior (less Passenger seat)
Radio and Navigation


Next step, maybe a little bit of nitrous to see what that nets us when added to this record setting combo

http://motownmuscle.com/forums/showt...is-Motorsports!

[Moto-Mojo]

My doors blown off? If it comes down nothing more than a mod war, I like my V8's chances of keeping up with Eco boost.

[snarky]

Originally Posted by Jasper

And sound like ass doing it.

[SteelCamaro]

This thread is laughable. Buy what you want, and let others enjoy what they want. I'm all for variety and how many options there are. It would be incredibly boring if every car had the same engine. Some of the best driver's cars out there are slow and have small engines (BRZ, Miata/MX-5, etc.). Hell, even the Cayman GT4 has a small 3.8 flat 6, isn't terribly fast by any means, but is being heralded as one of the best cars of all time.

A simple tune alone from a Cobb Accessport will get an Ecoboost Mustang to 400 ft-lbs of torque. I DD a WRX, which has a turbo flat 4, and that thing is no slouch by any means. Stock-for-stock it keeps right up with my LS3 SS from 0-60. Top end is a different story, but I'll take it considering the WRX retails at about $10k less than an SS.

[GMTool]

When and overloaded 4 cylinder 8' bed full size pick up truck can strongly accelerate up hill on a hot and humid summer day with the A/C blasting, then I will consider a 4 banger.