[90503]

Originally Posted by el ess A

Go Cards!!! Cubs/Cards in the playoffs is almost not even on the radar as far as the extra excitement level. I thought it would be even more charged, but over the years, the rivalry has ALWAYS took on a playoff atmosphere to me every regular season series. So it almost doesn't even feel different. I know what's on the line for both teams, but Cubs/Cards battles are almost always electric.

THE SLIDE.......

So Chase Utley of the Dodgers is suspended (pending appeal) for 2 games because of a late slide. It was sort of cheesy, but I don't think it was an intentionally dirty slide. Mets fans may disagree, but I don't think anyone was out to hurt anyone else. It was a deliberate slide that happens a lot to break up double plays. Had Utley touched 2nd on his way to break up the play, I think there would be no question it would have been a legal play. The fact he didn't even attempt to touch the base made it look shady, but he was in the vicinity of 2nd base. Whether it was a "late slide" or an "over-slide" is of no bearing. Runners do NOT have to slide or get out of the way of a player throwing a ball if they're running straight to the base and not deliberately interfering with the throw. And they can over run/slide the base at their peril if the ball is not ruled dead.

While the slide can be debated, I do disagree with the umpire's call on the field to allow an appeal of the call AFTER Utley got up and abandoned the efforts to run the bases. I could be wrong, but after a player, thinking he is out - whether he truly is or not , leaves the playing field and is of reasonable distance away from the field of play (he went straight to the dugout without ever touching 2nd base) he shall be ruled out. So Mattingly's challenge shouldn't have been granted because Utley effectively took himself off the base path. I have watched many a challenge where runners on base STAY out on the field while the manager contemplates whether to challenge.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was in the rule book that once a player abandons the effort to run the bases, he is out and that's that. By giving Utley the base that he never legally obtained by touching and then leaving the field on top of that and getting back that out, the complexion of the inning changed dramatically. Would it have changed the outcome of the game? We'll never know. If I were the Mets manager, I'd have had his relief pitcher stand on the mound before the next official play, then toss it to 2nd base and then challenge the fact Utley never legally obtained the base in the first place by not touching it before he left the field of play. But they didn't.

I'm far from a Mets fan, but I think they got double-hosed by what I believe misunderstanding of application of the rules.

Even the Cardinals did it in Game 2 of the 2012 NLCS. Holliday did a late slide (if it was even that) and knocked over Scutaro in an attempt to mess up a double play. Nobody got suspended there for virtually the same type of play.

Don't ever want to see anyone hurt in the game, but baseball does not have to be sanitized like that IMO. The injury to break up slide ratio has to be very low or the players' union would be harping about it you would think.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I think you are right about the player giving himself up....Same thing applies when a batter walks to the dugout on a dropped third strike...He doesn't have to be tagged...

I think Utley's slide was legal...Runners establish their own path going base to base. He did not go out of his baseline path on the way to second. In looking at the video, he could have reached for the base and made contact with it, but when he became entangled with the defender, his reflexes changed and it caused him to not reach for the bag.

I think this situation is a result of the use of instant replay....Because runners had the right to slide as they do to "break up" a double play,
defenders were allowed the "vicinity/neighborhood" play for the out...

Get rid of instant replay, allow the neighborhood out, and you won't see slides like Utley's be as frequent. Even now infielders must risk injury at second to avoid an out being taken away by instant replay from slides a lot less aggressive than Utley's...

They will change the rules, Utley will be that catalyst for avoiding injuries, and instant replay will rule the day and be more significant...I think it's a tragedy...Instant replay and appeals are ruining the game.

[Ryanbabz71]

I see this happening for the next few years



Edit make it 6, add Fowler


Ryan

[Ryanbabz71]

Originally Posted by el ess A

That's why it'll be that much sweeter when the Cards go up 2 games to 1 come Tuesday morning.

Sorry man, maybe next year


Ryan

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by Ryanbabz71

Sorry man, maybe next year


Ryan

Little too early for that, but wouldn't it be sweet if the Cubs won this series at home.

[Ryanbabz71]

Originally Posted by titanfan

Little too early for that, but wouldn't it be sweet if the Cubs won this series at home.

Considering the cards cannot go up 2-1 in the series wouldn't say it's to early for that.


Ryan

[el ess A]

The Cards can still can go up 3-2. And then 2-1 in the NLCS. That's plan B. Recall this isn't the best of 3, it's the best of 5. Don't count your goats just yet.

But yes, the winner of this one will be in front of the home crowd. Which home crowd is TBD.

At least it wasn't Arietta that did the Cards in. In fact, Arietta was looking pretty bad for his standard as of late. It was the giveaway homers by the Cards pitchers. Can't defend against those.

Regardless of who wins, the Mets are a buzz saw waiting to cut deep.

[Ryanbabz71]

History is against the Cubs in clinching at home 0-4 all time

Bring on the mets Cubs owned them this year 7-0


Ryan

[mickss]

Originally Posted by Ryanbabz71

History is against the Cubs in clinching at home 0-4 all time

Bring on the mets Cubs owned them this year 7-0


Ryan

Just may sure Steve Bartman isn`t at the game and the Cubs should be OK!

[Ryanbabz71]

Bartman had nothing to do with the meltdown in 03. It's all in their heads. These kids don't care about what happened in the past they are just playing. It's a lot of fun to watch. I swear they will find schwarbers ball on lake shore drive tomorrow


Ryan

[titanfan]

Great season, Cardinal fans. Just remember, there's always next year!


CUBS WIN! CUBS WIN!

[Z65]

Originally Posted by Ryanbabz71

Bartman had nothing to do with the meltdown in 03. It's all in their heads. These kids don't care about what happened in the past they are just playing. It's a lot of fun to watch. I swear they will find schwarbers ball on lake shore drive tomorrow


Ryan

Dusty Baker left Prior in too long, Alex Gonzalez should've turned the double play and there was an entire Game 7 to play. No fault for that poor guy.

That HR was a shot, wow!

[el ess A]

Tip of the cap to the Cubs. Cards played off-key and the Cubs capitalized on their mistakes.

For all the Cub fans though, I realize you may not have been alive the last time the Cubs were in the World Series (70 years- dang Tigers), and 12 years since the last NLCS, so it's especially sweet times at the moment.

But be very careful of equating "owning" a team in the regular season as a precursor to how well you will do in a playoff situation. That is history. This is now. Don't underestimate the opponents.

For us Cardinal fans, the expectation that next year brings the same thing whether the Cards win this year or not. Post-season is a great place to be. Even if they've been there a bunch. It never gets old. Cards will be there again.

There's a saying that is now becoming an anthem: If it's mid-October in St. Louis, there is baseball to be played.

Although I'm a bit sad to not be playing deeper this year, chances are very good St. Louis will be playing ball next post-season, too. I'm not worried.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by el ess A

Tip of the cap to the Cubs. Cards played off-key and the Cubs capitalized on their mistakes.

For all the Cub fans though, I realize you may not have been alive the last time the Cubs were in the World Series (70 years- dang Tigers), and 12 years since the last NLCS, so it's especially sweet times at the moment.

But be very careful of equating "owning" a team in the regular season as a precursor to how well you will do in a playoff situation. That is history. This is now. Don't underestimate the opponents.

For us Cardinal fans, the expectation that next year brings the same thing whether the Cards win this year or not. Post-season is a great place to be. Even if they've been there a bunch. It never gets old. Cards will be there again.

There's a saying that is now becoming an anthem: If it's mid-October in St. Louis, there is baseball to be played.

Although I'm a bit sad to not be playing deeper this year, chances are very good St. Louis will be playing ball next post-season, too. I'm not worried.

I know recent history is against me, but I would be surprised if the Cardinals finished next year's campaign better than 3rd place in the NL Central. Let's face it, the Cardinals had a great year with 100 wins despite injuries to key players, but that was, IMO, a rare thing in baseball. The off-season is going to be interesting for the Cardinals.

But I digress, the 2015 season is not over yet. Well, I guess it is for some teams, but not all of them.

[90503]

What the hell just happened....lol....I pray for the future of this game...lol...(Go Texas, BTW...)