[mcsoul]

Great work! Trap speed would be fun.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

For sure.

Being the mustang is selling so well and so many of the owners are trying to downplay the camaro, let's hope this doesn't turn into the 4.6 era again.

Mustang has always sold well regardless. If it continues to lead I'm not sure what fords incentive would be. They didn't care in the past but it looks different now.

I'm guessing they will respond. Not sure the 5.0 has enough in it to surpass though... Not in factory trim while meeting all requirements etc

Now that the weight advantage is gone it will b interesting to see what ford does with the motor.... Exciting times. They always had a cushion in the past.

Yeah back in the day seemed Ford only chased sales, but the last few years of the S197 showed they are willing to do updates to chase camaro. Power went up slightly in the 5.0 from 12 to 13, sheet metal face lift in 13.

I'm guessing that the 5.0 will get a minor bump in power, probably not to the level of the LT1 but a little bump. Also Ford does have the 10 speed auto in the works, if the 10 speed produces similar results that GM and Chrysler has seen going to 8A, I think that would help even the playing field in the acceleration department.

Only way to level the handling field, is if MRC eventually trickles down the GT but I think GM will have the edge handling wise on SS vs GT.

Exciting times indeed for us enthusiasts!

[Curr]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

I just wish C&D do 60-0 Braking and not 70-0.

I noticed that looking through older tests, wonder why? Unless it's just people are more apt to travel at 70 than 60 today... but doesn't help everyone else still uses 60.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah back in the day seemed Ford only chased sales, but the last few years of the S197 showed they are willing to do updates to chase camaro. Power went up slightly in the 5.0 from 12 to 13, sheet metal face lift in 13.

I'm guessing that the 5.0 will get a minor bump in power, probably not to the level of the LT1 but a little bump. Also Ford does have the 10 speed auto in the works, if the 10 speed produces similar results that GM and Chrysler has seen going to 8A, I think that would help even the playing field in the acceleration department.

Only way to level the handling field, is if MRC eventually trickles down the GT but I think GM will have the edge handling wise on SS vs GT.

Exciting times indeed for us enthusiasts!

Hard to sift through a lot of the b.s. But from what i think I've gathered the GT might be able to lose some weight without much trouble as well. Is the car mostly steel? Would slightly raise msrp but that's ok the camaro went up a lot... They have room. Heard ford just partnered with a big aluminum company as well.

Add 10-15 hp, drop 50 lbs and put in the 10 speed. Would be a lot more interesting for sure. Guessing they will just have to keep raising rpms though to do it with the current mill. It really needs more low end and midrange grunt. I think they should work on something new... Or maybe they are...

It should gain power with DI. Funny thing most of the stang guys do nothing but bash it. Guessing they will change their tune if it comes to mustang GT. I know about the dirty valve issue... Curious to see how that plays out with higher mileage lt1s. From what I've gathered mixed injection with DI is best to keep valves clean.

You know what would be really crazy/cool?

Offering the 5.2 FPC as an upgraded engine option for the GT similar to what dodge does with the scat pack. I think they could do that for ~40 k starting. That would be tempting !

[SpeedIsLife]

They would need to include it with the new trans too. A 10 speed paired to the 5.2 FPC would be..wow

[Autonaut]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

They would need to include it with the new trans too. A 10 speed paired to the 5.2 FPC would be..wow

As much as i like auto trans', the 5.2fpc and it's redline deserves a manual to fully control that sound and feel.. Also, too many non-enthusiasts would end up in it(underservingly) because they all of a sudden also can drive it.

Where i come from 5 year olds can drive a stick. In the US it's different.

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yep GM just set the bar pretty high with the SS. I am very curious to see how Ford and Chrysler respond. Ford has been very quick to respond in the last few years of the S197.

Competition brings out the best for everyone!

Ford has to respond to this. They released a new model with an outdated 6 speed auto transmission and carry over engine even though it's a good engine and instead of losing weight they gained it. Someone said MY '18 is their refresh, I doubt they can give Camaro 2 years of sales till fall of '17.

I think you'll see 10 speed transmission debut in the '17 Mustang, the exhaust modes from the GT350, digital gauges from their other cars like the F-150 and possibly some aluminum parts they have the casts/parts for (trucklid/deck) they didn't debut on the '15/'16 that they held over.

Chevy's big mistake is not offering a more 'standard' SS and offering the more performance stuff in a package like the GT does. They would sell more if they could unpackage some of that stuff and make it instead a factory option. Not everyone wants to track their SS but many still want a V8.

Put the spoiler, summer tires, brakes, 20" staggered wheels, etc in a performance package. Then you have the best of both worlds. Standard and PP SS just like the GT has. There are lots of GT buyers that didnt want the track/pp package...so Ford gave people the option. They did it just like Ford for the 1SS/2SS making like the base/premium GT but then added in the PP to both which everyone doesnt want/need.

Then the price would come down on the 1ss/2ss trim by a few grand which would be great for those that don't want all these options.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by VF-22

Ford has to respond to this. They released a new model with an outdated 6 speed auto transmission and carry over engine even though it's a good engine and instead of losing weight they gained it. Someone said MY '18 is their refresh, I doubt they can give Camaro 2 years of sales till fall of '17.

I think you'll see 10 speed transmission debut in the '17, the exhaust modes, digital gauges and possibly some aluminum parts they have the casts/parts for (trucklid/deck) they didn't debut on the '15/'16 that they held over.

Chevy's big mistake is not offering a more 'touring/dd' SS and offering the more performance stuff in a package like the GT does. They would sell more if they could unpackage some of that stuff and make it instead a factory option. Not everyone wants to track their SS but many still want a V8.

The Camaro SS will be track capable and still offer a nice smooth ride especially with MRC as an upgrade and when the 10 speed auto is ready, GM and Ford will have equal access since it's a joint venture project. GM also has a patented method of welding aluminum and other high strength light weight mixed metals that is being put to use in the CT6 that can be brought to bear for even more weight savings if need be when the time comes.

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

The Camaro SS will be track capable and still offer a nice smooth ride especially with MRC as an upgrade and when the 10 speed auto is ready, GM and Ford will have equal access since it's a joint venture project. GM also has a patented method of welding aluminum and other high strength light weight mixed metals that is being put to use in the CT6 that can be brought to bear for even more weight savings if need be when the time comes.

I know it's track capable...my point is they have features on there that many don't need but still want a V8. My point is I think Ford did the smart thing and put the majority of the 'performance/track' stuff into a package while Chevy has it just included which is a big part of the $$$ difference.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by VF-22

Ford has to respond to this. They released a new model with an outdated 6 speed auto transmission and carry over engine even though it's a good engine and instead of losing weight they gained it. Someone said MY '18 is their refresh, I doubt they can give Camaro 2 years of sales till fall of '17.

I think you'll see 10 speed transmission debut in the '17, the exhaust modes, digital gauges and possibly some aluminum parts they have the casts/parts for (trucklid/deck) they didn't debut on the '15/'16 that they held over.

Chevy's big mistake is not offering a more 'standard' SS and offering the more performance stuff in a package like the GT does. They would sell more if they could unpackage some of that stuff and make it instead a factory option. Not everyone wants to track their SS but many still want a V8.

Put the spoiler, summer tires, 20" staggered wheels, etc in a package. Then you have the best of both worlds. Standard and PP SS just like the GT has. THere are lots of GT buyers that didnt want the track/pp package...so Ford gave people the option.

Ford has already announced the Raptor will have the 10 speed, I would think if the Mustang was going to get it for that MY, they would have announced it too. Doesn't mean they won't, just seems odd.

You are also assuming a more stripped SS will sell more than the loaded one. It's been said several times GM studies of 5th gen SS sales showed that the 2SS outsold the 1SS by a significant margin. We also have not seen any sales break downs on the Mustang, but I bet the Premiums are outselling the base GTs, who knows about the PP. My guess is b/c the PP doesn't offer an auto, it would result in lower sales.

I do think it would have been nice to offer the track/cooling equipment as an option. Might not have been a huge drop in prices due to complexity and manufacturing cost. So I can see why they didn't.

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Ford has already announced the Raptor will have the 10 speed, I would think if the Mustang was going to get it for that MY, they would have announced it too. Doesn't mean they won't, just seems odd.

You are also assuming a more stripped SS will sell more than the loaded one. It's been said several times GM studies of 5th gen SS sales showed that the 2SS outsold the 1SS by a significant margin. We also have not seen any sales break downs on the Mustang, but I bet the Premiums are outselling the base GTs, who knows about the PP. My guess is b/c the PP doesn't offer an auto, it would result in lower sales.

I do think it would have been nice to offer the track/cooling equipment as an option. Might not have been a huge drop in prices due to complexity and manufacturing cost. So I can see why they didn't.

I think you're confusing premium vs base vs the 'performance stuff' I'm talking about. The 'stripped' stuff isn't premium/luxury features, it's the stuff that makes the Camaro more track capable.

Bar none a Premium GT is outselling the base GT just like I'm sure a 2SS will outsell the 1SS because of the premium features (seats, lighting, safety, etc). The older 5th gen 1ss/2ss were the same way...premium features vs them being gone. But both 1ss/2ss were the same car in terms of capability.

A GT (base or premium) without the PP is not the same car performance wise as the GT with the PP. Basically you have 4 versions of the GT. GT base/GT Premium/GT base with PP/GT Premium with PP. Those last 2 with the PP are track capable with very different RAR and suspensions/tuning. It's like a difference beast if you've driven them. Base and Premium difference is only creature comforts in the GT.

With the SS you have 1SS/2SS. Both are exactly the same in terms of their performance. Same as the GT their only difference is creature comforts.

Wheels, brakes, cooling, tuning/suspension, spoiler should have been a package then you get the best of both worlds. The buyer who wants an SS as a DD/fun every now and then car and the person who wants a track capable monster.

As for Ford/10 speed, yep the Raptor is getting it but I think Ford is playing it close to the vest and was waiting to see what Chevy did with the new Camaro. I think in October you'll see some news leak out right about when the Camaro goes on sale.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by VF-22

I think you're confusing premium vs base vs the 'performance stuff' I'm talking about. The 'stripped' stuff isn't premium/luxury features, it's the stuff that makes the Camaro more track capable.

Bar none a Premium GT is outselling the base GT just like I'm sure a 2SS will outsell the 1SS because of the premium features (seats, lighting, safety, etc). The older 5th gen 1ss/2ss were the same way...premium features vs them being gone. But both 1ss/2ss were the same car in terms of capability.

A GT (base or premium) without the PP is not the same car performance wise as the GT with the PP. Basically you have 4 versions of the GT. GT base/GT base with PP/GT Premium/GT Premium with PP. With the SS you have 1SS/2SS.

What I'm saying is Ford has their 'performance package' which adds the features to make it more track capable. It's why the GT is much lower in price in either trim then the Camaro.

Wheels, brakes, cooling, tuning/suspension, spoiler should have been a package then you get the best of both worlds. The buyer who wants an SS as a DD/fun every now and then car and the person who wants a track capable monster.

As for Ford/10 speed, yep the Raptor is getting it but I think Ford is playing it close to the vest and was waiting to see what Chevy did with the new Camaro. I think in October you'll see some news leak out right about when the Camaro goes on sale.

Yea I was reading too far into what you were saying.

I honestly think Ford is missing out by not offering the PP with the auto GTs. They offer it for the EB Auto, so beginning to wonder if they had some concerns with auto's reliability with the 5.0 on the track.

Think we should also note the SS really only gets additional coolers over what would be comparable in a base GT. Ford's PP adds a lot of equipment, so there was no way it would appeal to everyone and would drive cost up. In that sense we probably really wouldn't see any savings by offering the cooling package separate. 6 piston brakes are already optional, so what else are we considering was too much extra for the 1SS?

No reason for them to hold it close since the transmission is being co-developed with GM anyway. So GM will have the trans at the same time too. Now maybe they didn't want people to hold off buying one this year if the 10 speed was coming out next. That I could see.

[obzidian]

Ford better get a stepping with a Di 5.0 and wrap the new GT with as much aluminum as they can cuz it's looking to be "4th gen f-body ass whooping time" all over again!

The 90's to 2002 wasn't a nice time to be a ford/mustang fanboy!

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Yea I was reading too far into what you were saying.

I honestly think Ford is missing out by not offering the PP with the auto GTs. They offer it for the EB Auto, so beginning to wonder if they had some concerns with auto's reliability with the 5.0 on the track.

Think we should also note the SS really only gets additional coolers over what would be comparable in a base GT. Ford's PP adds a lot of equipment, so there was no way it would appeal to everyone and would drive cost up. In that sense we probably really wouldn't see any savings by offering the cooling package separate. 6 piston brakes are already optional, so what else are we considering was too much extra for the 1SS?

No reason for them to hold it close since the transmission is being co-developed with GM anyway. So GM will have the trans at the same time too. Now maybe they didn't want people to hold off buying one this year if the 10 speed was coming out next. That I could see.

I think it has to do with the Auto owning the GT/PP if it had it. Ford still caters to the manual fanboys in America so they only offered it in the manual. In Europe the GT Auto gets the PP. I also think they are holding it over for another new 'option'.

8 speed is far enough for an auto IMO. I think Ford was dumb for not offering an 8 speed in the '15 Mustang. They are far behind the times. Ford seems to updated every few years where they only put so much out.

Actually the SS gets more then just coolers. Talking GT without PP here vs SS.

SS has 3.73 RAR vs the GT that has 3.15s (auto) or 3.33s (Manual). Thats an upgrade for $400 for 3.55s or you have to get the PP for 3.73.

SS gets 20" wheels and staggered set up. GT has 18" wheels without upgrade

SS has run flat Summer tires. GT has all seasons.

Also the SS gets a performance /track suspension where the GT has a sports one (similar to LT on V6).

So the GT needs a lot more on it to make it similar to the 1SS/2SS.