[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The A8s seem to have cooling issues.

Yes, and as they have stated, you should get the manual if you'll heavily track it. As I stated, LT1 doesn't really have any serious cooling issues.

[chain777]

You really have to ask yourself why they put all the extra cooling on the V8's? Why add all the weight, complexity and cost just for track use? They could've lowered the base price and the curb weight, giving them another edge on the competition. Maybe they feel it's justified for bragging rights that every SS Camaro is track ready. I don't know, have they even marketed that angle?

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Who includes taxes in the sticker price? Nobody, especially since it varies from state to state, with some states not paying taxes on new cars. There is no "base" model GT350 that you keep talking about. Even the "base" car has plenty of features standard like Sync, Recaros, full power, air con, keyless entry with prox key, etc, etc. What that car is about is the motor/trans/suspension anyway. I am not one of the people whining about or comparing the prices of either car in this thread. I think the new GT350 is a badass car for sure, I also think the new SS will be too. Just different...but I am not (and not saying you are, but they are in here) one of the Camaro leg humpers who can't give credit where credit is due.

Fair enough. Wasn't rying to start a war. Just getting sick of the 350 and ss comparison like they are the same price. It is actually kind of funny most are trying to divert the attention away from the true comparison of ss vs gt. That really says something as well.

When Im talking tax etc just being critical as hotlap said. Tax is also less on 37k than it is on 50k.

Just things people overlook and don't think about when trying to make it look like it is in the same price range as a Camaro. I can fudge numbers too. And truly...I do have to pay tax...and tax is more the more a vehicle costs. its an honest and true statement that has nothing to do with bias.

Attention to detail I guess...certain things bug me a little.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by chain777

If I read what you wrote in red, I'd say it's because Ford built a car that's about $15K cheaper than the Z/28 (the base R is the stripped out model comparable to the Z/28) that apparently out performs it?

And if your really not interested in a track oriented car, why would you care? Unless your pricing out a loaded SS and wondering if the price isn't starting to creep too close to a GT350. I know that's what I'd be thinking. Sure it's a base car, but where not talking about a stripped out car like the Z/28. It's still has all the basic creature comforts for a street car.

So I get where some people will question whether giving up some tech for more performance will be worth the trade-off. The price of a loaded SS and a base GT350 are close enough that the comparison is inevitable. It all depends on your priorities.

Just talking from a price performance and overall value standpoint it is unfair to compare a car with leather, premium stereo , heated and cooled seats etc to a car that doesn't. Is that stuff supposed to be free? It is 7500 dollars to add more options into the 350.

And if that's not important to someone then one should be comparing it to a 1ss not a 2ss plus even more options (which is funny cuz the thing is loaded to the gills standard)

Just saying apples to apples is how things should be looked at. And I also get what some are saying to a point...can I go without that stuff for the extra performance etc? that's fine and dandy...but don't dog the Camaro for its price at the same time and make an unfair comparison (not pointing any fingers just talking in general)

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Actually since there is no "direct" competitor, guess what magazines will test against the GT350? Oh right, a 2SS.

And no frills? Depends on ones definition of frills. I think I'd take a FPC 5.2 V8 revving to the moon vs. leather and interior lights. It's not like it comes bare bones with auto dimming mirrors, premium interior trim, recaros, 6 speaker audio system, etc.

And it's a logical argument. You don't think someone might want to purchase a base GT350 instead of a well optioned SS? You'd be brand loyal not to at least give it a thought. Especially if I have one car optioned to $46k, and one at $49k.

$11,495 difference with a 1SS
$6,495 different with a 2SS. <--- Start adding options and dealer installed parts and that gap closes quick.

Thank you for just making my point. You picked performance over comfort so you would not be looking at a 2SS, you would be looking at a 1SS, GT non-Premium, and R/T. Notice all those cars are $10k difference in price. By that logic why would anyway buy one of those cars if that $10k difference in price is justified by the GT350s performance. It's like the one guy on here who was talking about buying an Audi instead of a 2SS. He probably shouldn't even be looking at 2SS if he doesn't value the performance it has over a similar priced Audi. So no you wouldn't be brand loyal not to consider a GT350 at the 2SS price point, you simply are not looking at a track toy or bare bone V8.

As for the GT350 standard features, take a look at the V6 Mustang. Apart from the obvious performance differences, you'll notice they are almost identically equipped. So to put it in perspective, you are paying close to $50k for a car equipped like one at $24k. Again I agree the performance is worth it and a great value. But then again comparing it to a loaded GT Premium with all the timings (like a 2SS) is backwards thinking. If those feature aren't worth the cost to you, then why the hell would you be looking at it. You don't walk into a 5 star restaurant to order chicken tenders do you? If you are that confused about what you want, price isn't the issue...finding what you like is...then decide which is worth more money to you.

Again I know I am not saying the GT350 is not worth the price or the 2SS is a better value. I'm saying comparing cars on price alone is asinine. What we should be arguing is it the GT350 bare bones worth the money over other bare bones RWD V8s.

Originally Posted by chain777

I agree that they don't directly compete with each other, but when you start approaching 50K, I could see questioning if the trade-off between tech and performance is worth it to some. Like i said, priorities. You've got a 50K budget, what do you want? More performance or more creature comforts? The choice is up to you.

I agree with the last, what is worth more to you, but to the first part someone needs to spend more time thinking about what they want before they price things. I wouldn't pay $5k for wheels for my car, but I might spend $10k on power adders because it would be worth more to me.

[chain777]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Just talking from a price performance and overall value standpoint it is unfair to compare a car with leather, premium stereo , heated and cooled seats etc to a car that doesn't. Is that stuff supposed to be free? It is 7500 dollars to add more options into the 350.

And if that's not important to someone then one should be comparing it to a 1ss not a 2ss plus even more options (which is funny cuz the thing is loaded to the gills standard)

Just saying apples to apples is how things should be looked at. And I also get what some are saying to a point...can I go without that stuff for the extra performance etc? that's fine and dandy...but don't dog the Camaro for its price at the same time and make an unfair comparison (not pointing any fingers just talking in general)

You're right, it's not a fair comparison feature to feature. I was looking at it from another angle brought up earlier.

I'm not dogging the Camaro, I have no doubt the SS will outperform the GT, and I think it's priced fairly for what your getting. And I think they addressed a lot of the short comings of the 5th gen. I just don't understand why they did't offer a more basic SS at a more competitive price.

I guess we'll see if they made the right decision when we see how the sales numbers work out.

[Davy_Baby9]

Didn't mean to rustle any jimmies, and my opinion doesn't count for much since I can't afford a loaded 2SS or base GT350 right now anyways.

I was simply trying to point out that if one can afford a highly optioned 2SS, they can afford a base GT350. What they would prefer would be up to them. I'd probably have to drive both, but if it were me, I'd lean toward the more powerful car.

[chain777]

I think a point that's missing is the fact that the Z/28 was such a single purpose car and priced so high, that anyone considering an SS couldn't even consider it. But when you see a car priced where the GT350 is and can be configured so it's a descent street ride, it makes you think.

That's why I think these comparisons come up.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Didn't mean to rustle any jimmies, and my opinion doesn't count for much since I can't afford a loaded 2SS or base GT350 right now anyways.

I was simply trying to point out that if one can afford a highly optioned 2SS, they can afford a base GT350. What they would prefer would be up to them. I'd probably have to drive both, but if it were me, I'd lean toward the more powerful car.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm on the opposite side of the seesaw, I currently have a 2014 GT500 with 700 rwhp that traps over 130mph in the quarter mile. Yeah, it's fast as hell but no matter how much power you have, you always get used to it. I think I would get more enjoyment out of the nice lush interior, all the gadgets and gizmos and the toys in the 2SS, even though it won't be nearly as fast. I could get a GT350 also, but I feel like I've been there, done that. I'm not brand biased at all, as you can probably tell. Sometimes I wish I was, it would be a lot easier and cheaper. I can appreciate and enjoy almost everything.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Didn't mean to rustle any jimmies, and my opinion doesn't count for much since I can't afford a loaded 2SS or base GT350 right now anyways.

I was simply trying to point out that if one can afford a highly optioned 2SS, they can afford a base GT350. What they would prefer would be up to them. I'd probably have to drive both, but if it were me, I'd lean toward the more powerful car.

That's all I was saying. There's lots of good options around the $50k range, but most do not offer that much performance.

Originally Posted by chain777

I think a point that's missing is the fact that the Z/28 was such a single purpose car and priced so high, that anyone considering an SS couldn't even consider it. But when you see a car priced where the GT350 is and can be configured so it's a descent street ride, it makes you think.

That's why I think these comparisons come up.

Right. But probably the best decision Ford could make was to offer the options and packages they did for the GT350. You can go from bare bones, to nicely equipped, to straight track animal. It's too early to tell, but I'm betting this translates into much better sales success and was probably how they could sell the idea of developing purpose built engine to the bean counters.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by chain777

I think a point that's missing is the fact that the Z/28 was such a single purpose car and priced so high, that anyone considering an SS couldn't even consider it. But when you see a car priced where the GT350 is and can be configured so it's a descent street ride, it makes you think.

That's why I think these comparisons come up.

The point you're missing is that the base GT350 isn't a great street car or track car. You need to add another $7,500 or $6,500 respectively to accomplish either. According to you (post 51) it's a $50k street racer with 71 HP advantage over a $37.3k 1SS ...that has more standard cooling

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by chain777

You really have to ask yourself why they put all the extra cooling on the V8's? Why add all the weight, complexity and cost just for track use? They could've lowered the base price and the curb weight, giving them another edge on the competition. Maybe they feel it's justified for bragging rights that every SS Camaro is track ready. I don't know, have they even marketed that angle?

I think ive read all the extra cooling will add around 15 lbs or so. As far as complexity yes I agree. Cost yep I agree.

I also agree they should have offered a bare bones 1ss with smaller brakes and no coolers etc for like 33-34 k that whooped on a standard gt in the 1/4. Heck not sure why they wouldnt throw on some cheap standard 235's on 18's or 19's like the base gt offers. that will drop weight and cost.
Probably something to do with assembly line efficiency etc. not being worth the potential small boost in sales (in terms of the more involved components not wheels). IDK.

I called it when I seen the price that the sales war might be over. At least in the long run. I would be surprised if the Camaro doesn't outsell it at least over a few different months in the future especially when it is new to the public etc.

The sales war is something I have never cared about that much. As long as it sells enough to stay in production and have a healthy aftermarket im happy. I don't want the car on every street corner and as popular as a pickup truck. I just don't understand the view of people wanting the mustang to take over the world. But whatever. I did enjoy watching the ford guys get upset about the sales race...I will miss that lol. If it outsells it great...if not whatever. Doesn't matter to me really. Both have positives and negatives.

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

Nothing wrong with that. I'm on the opposite side of the seesaw, I currently have a 2014 GT500 with 700 rwhp that traps over 130mph in the quarter mile. Yeah, it's fast as hell but no matter how much power you have, you always get used to it. I think I would get more enjoyment out of the nice lush interior, all the gadgets and gizmos and the toys in the 2SS, even though it won't be nearly as fast. I could get a GT350 also, but I feel like I've been there, done that. I'm not brand biased at all, as you can probably tell. Sometimes I wish I was, it would be a lot easier and cheaper. I can appreciate and enjoy almost everything.

I know EXACTLY what you are saying.

I just turned 31 and I have grown up a lot in only the past 5 years or so. Until recently I would have been very tempted by the base gt350. But ive been around the block and had cars that will stomp that car in stock configuration. Power is easy to come by and yes you get used to it. I want a car that does it all pretty well and that I actually enjoy daily driving and the all around appeal/features/amenities of it. My first loaded vehicle was my Silverado I bought last year...and Im not sure I can go back...not just for performance at a higher price (if it came to that trade off)

Now im not saying those that want the car or are tempted by it are unjustified or stupid. Its just not my personal taste anymore as I have matured and I also don't frequent a road course either. I totally respect what these cars can do...and like the z28...I just have no use for it and the price premium it incurs.

oh and I wasn't bashing you for your opinion on the price comparison. I get it...its a trade off. Im speaking on people making the comparison in an unfair light etc. The waters get muddied pretty easily.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

The point your missing is that the base GT350 isn't a great street car or track car. You need to add another $7,500 or $6,500 respectively to accomplish either. According to you (post 51) it's a $50k street racer with 71 HP advantage over a $37.3k 1SS ...that has more standard cooling

Not the best argument and I know the flaws in it. Voided warranty, stock vs modded etc.

But as far as acceleration goes...a stick shift driver in a gt350 is going to have one hell of a hard time against an a8 1ss with headers, cai and a tune. Dare I say he better be Evan Smith all things being equal and the new SS keeps its weight in check.

My ls3 picked up around 60 hp with those mods. Maybe a bit more or less but I never had a baseline done. So kind of a flawed calculation.
It made 435 rwhp with cai, exhaust and tune. Most stock are in the 370-380rwhp range if I remember correctly. But dynos vary.

Just saying the new Camaro is a 500+hp car with bolt ons that will run with the 350. pretty cool

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by chain777

...I wonder if the reason they're on all the SS Camaros now is because of the cooling issues they've been having on the C7 Corvettes? Or did they really make all V8 Camaros track ready?

FYI

10. The SS model is "track capable"

In anticipation of expected hard driving, the Camaro SS is rated as track capable. That means that it can run for an entire tank of fuel at maximum speed around GM’s Milford Road Course without cooking its engine, transmission, differential, or brakes. That’s why it has so many radiators.
http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook...-new-camaro#11