[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by shibbs

This. I wish we'd stop giving these fools publicity--it's exactly what they want.

just curious, but how can this be what he wants, when he's dead?

[CamaroSkooter]

Immortality. Infamy. Going out in a blaze of "glory." Call it whatever you want. He knew that by doing what he did he would become instant celebrity, especially if he died in the act. Does it make sense to you and me? Of course not. That's because the mentally unstable don't use the same logic and rationale that you or I do.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Immortality. Infamy. Going out in a blaze of "glory." Call it whatever you want. He knew that by doing what he did he would become instant celebrity, especially if he died in the act. Does it make sense to you and me? Of course not. That's because the mentally unstable don't use the same logic and rationale that you or I do.

yeah, I suppose. crazy mother effers. lol

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by Silverlsinva

Yea it is no excuse to kill 7 people but what the point I was trying to make is that no one seemed to try and be his friend and let him vent to them so they could be a sounding board and give good advice or even help him realize that the way he sounded was being to creepy. Yes everyone has problems in this world big and small but everyone deals with them differently some people turn to drugs and alcohol some people turn to family and others to friends and then there is professional help as well. Saying someone is weak minded is a cop out IMO. Unless you yourself or someone close to u has gone thru depression or living with it u don't know what your talking about.

I heard he had 2 shrinks.

[kalimus]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Blaming a group like the NRA may not be the right way direct his anger. However, asking a question like "where is his anger towards this individual" is definitely not addressing the issue correctly. He should just be mad at the person (who is also dead) and try to deal with his loss that way? He's trying to prevent this from happening again and directing anger at someone who no longer exists does nothing.
I'm not a legal expert but his rants may have been enough to put him behind bars... not sure. What I am sure of is there are several more individuals just as crazy as this one. They can be hard to identlfy and not all crazy people have ill intentions. So what should be done with people that have mental disorders... limit their access to effective killing tools.

I would have assumed the rant would have been enough to at least put him on a 72 hour psych hold. Apparently it wasn't. It should have been.

Limiting access to which effective killing tools? I know the thread said 9 killed, but the number is actually 6. This is what the media finally has figured out. 3 stabbed to death, 3 shot to death. Are three of those deaths more important than the others? The gun deaths are worse? He was apparently fairly productive with more than one tool.

Additionally (and ironically) he obeyed every single overly-controlling gun law California has to offer. He passed the background checks for his firearms, he submitted to their wait time, and his weapons and magazines were in complete state compliance. The only law he broke when committing those murders was... well... murder. The extra laws that California has on the books didn't hinder his ability in the slightest. 10 round magazines, using pistols that are on the California's "approved roster of handguns"... none of those things deterred him.

What WOULD have deterred him, would have been appropriate action by the police when they investigated the claims from the parents, which they apparently did a half-assed job of.

Keeping guns from mentally ill people is tricky. Who determines that a person is so ill they can't have a firearm? Does it have the ability to be abused? You know it does. What kinds of illness qualify? Depression? Anxiety? You're going to take out over half the country with those two things alone.

Anyway, that's just a tangent. Point being, that some of the most intrusive "control" laws in the nation were obeyed, and were proven utterly useless. And even with a complete and utter ban... 1/2 the people killed would still be dead. Address the individual... and none of them would be.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

There's a lot of people that seem to be worshiping at the altar of the gun. I have this feeling if an Angel came down from Heaven and said "okay i have the power to take all guns from bad and good people, will you give me yours?" Some of these people would say "NOT Mine ! "

Unless said angel takes away anything that could conceivably be used as a weapon to hurt me, my loved ones, or my property, there's no way in hell I'm giving up my guns.

[skipinminn]

I just wish they'd JUST kill them selves and not have to take others with them :( If they want to DIE that's FINE/ But leave other people out of their Death WISH :(

[Mr Twisty]

Cain slew Able with a:

A: AR15

B: Bowie Knife

C: Rock

D: Hate

[Maiv]

I was there the night this happened scariest thing ever

[kalimus]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

On the other hand i've always been basically pro-gun rights, but in the past year, listening to the representatives of these organizations i've really had it with them too. They don't want any laws....

They don't want any NEW laws. There are so many laws on the books that it's actually confusing on what is legal and what is not in certain areas.

[edneyens]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

i don't know, and i don't know what's happend to people in the last 20 years that they think this is alright. lots of people are alone or picked on at school and grew up and it never occured to them to go on a killing spree. It's not like you can just say society has changed and condone's this behaviour and therefore it happens, because no one condone's it.
On the other hand i've always been basically pro-gun rights, but in the past year, listening to the representatives of these organizations i've really had it with them too. They don't want any laws, and i'd like to know how connected they are to the manufacturer's too. Their idea is 'everyone should carry'. yeah right. If you have one you better keep an eye on it at all times if you carry it somewhere.
There's a lot of people that seem to be worshiping at the altar of the gun. I have this feeling if an Angel came down from Heaven and said "okay i have the power to take all guns from bad and good people, will you give me yours?" Some of these people would say "NOT Mine ! "

A big issue that you fail to see and/or understand is that things are not worse than they have been in the past, they are in fact better and the trend is in the right direction - you are constantly being brain washed by the liberal media and the anti-gun lobby into thinking what they say is true and that we all need to just do what they want.

More people need to dig deeper into the facts and understand what is true about violence and crime. As mentioned by numerous postings the root cause of violence and crime is a person. We need to take actions to keep weapons out of the hands of mentally disturbed people and we need to punish criminals for the crimes they commit. We do not need new laws (we already have more than needed) we need to enforce existing laws.

[skipinminn]

Originally Posted by edneyens

A big issue that you fail to see and/or understand is that things are not worse than they have been in the past, they are in fact better and the trend is in the right direction - you are constantly being brain washed by the liberal media and the anti-gun lobby into thinking what they say is true and that we all need to just do what they want.

More people need to dig deeper into the facts and understand what is true about violence and crime. As mentioned by numerous postings the root cause of violence and crime is a person. We need to take actions to keep weapons out of the hands of mentally disturbed people and we need to punish criminals for the crimes they commit. We do not need new laws (we already have more than needed) we need to enforce existing laws.

AMEN ^5

[PoorMansCamaro]

after reading up and watching some youtube...here's what I think of...

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

While I agree that limiting guns to mentally unstable people should be a high priority, the reality is, people want to use this as a reason to limit guns to all citizens, not just mentally unstable.

And on top of that, how do you determine who is mentally unstable? In most cases, the mentally unstable are not labeled as so until after they do something to be classified as mentally unstable.

Should we test every person who turns 18 to see if they're mentally stable? Or should we start at 16 and test every year until they're 21?

Where do you draw the line?

I can respond to the first part but the rest is certainly a grey area. It's very difficult to determine who is so mentally unstable they can't posess firearms. But guns for all is definitely not the answer.

People use tragic events to push their agenda. It's not right but it happens. Anti gun lobbyists are using this story in an attempt to achieve their goals but I don't think this guy has an "agenda". He lost his son and is speaking passionately about an issue that has effected him in a very negative way. I wouldn't have been surprised if he called for world peace. He's searching for his own inner peace and a way to live his life without his son. The fact is his opinion holds more weight than someone complaining about less rounds per magazine.

If these events just continue to draw lines and get everone's back up then nothing will change and this will happen again and again. If you're alright with that then so be it. But how large of a tragedy needs to take place for something to happen? And if such an event were to take place civil liberties will be removed without anyone's opinion (see 9/11)