[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by joelster

Have you ever seen a Raptor?

No, this is my first week on earth...

They aren't exactly built for highway use.

But MANY people use them as daily drivers. Or at least that's what I'm told, since I've never actually seen one...

What if they stuck that 6.2 into a regular 4x2 F150? I bet it could hit 20mpg highway.

But they haven't, have they? And they don't intend to, do they?

6.2, as installed OEM, vs. 6.2. Sorry, but Ford Truck engines are NOT renowned for their F.E. in the real world...and this shining example is Ford's HALO. As far as power and F.E., it's no better than average...right? Average being those archaic useless underpowered pushrod thingies Mopar and GM insist on tricking people with...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by matt55

Not really , F.I. runs richer than N/A counterparts and F.I. generally has lower C/R which also leads to lower fuel efficiency.

You're missing the point. "When you are producing 500 hp, you are burning 500 hp-worth of fuel."

I own a tweaked '87 Regal Turbo-T. Yes, I can get nearly 30 mpg with the car...but NOT when I'm demanding it deliver "500 hp"...

And THAT is the "lie" for this supposed "new-tech" forced induction solution. Idling along on the EPA drive dyno leads to erroneous F.E. numbers (even when "recalibrated"). Put the vehicle to its intended use, especially in a truck environment under load with a gasoline engine, and F.E. flies out the window.

Diesels are different, especially in a truck environment. In trucks, they barely recognize a load, as far as F.E. is concerned. Their F.E. degradation, unloaded vs. loaded, is nominal in comparison to a gas V8. Some gas V8s, when towing to max rating, drop in HALF or worse. You don't see that with diesels, when towing the same weight.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by joelster

You are implying that because the Raptor 6.2L has OHC that it should automatically make more power than a pushrod 6.2L, based on its level of sophistication, right? That's a pretty weak argument. Compression ratio is different, one is direct injected, lift/duration is different, etc, etc.

My points were all about the Coyote which is DOHC, not SOHC. DOHC allows them to move the intake cams separate from the exhaust cams. You can't do that with the Raptor engine. The Raptor 6.2 can't adjust it's cam timing any different from the GM family.

Then you brag about the economy, lol. Have you ever seen a Raptor? They aren't exactly built for highway use. 35" knobby tires, massive Fox off-road shocks, huge by large everywhere. Do you think that effects the fuel economy? What if they stuck that 6.2 into a regular 4x2 F150? I bet it could hit 20mpg highway.

you don't need DOHC to independently adjust intake and exhaust valve timing.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

My mistake, I didn't mean to bring conjecture in a thread that originated from a "Car and Driver future cars that may or may not be produced" article.

Putting a new-Gen vehicle up against an old-Gen vehicle generally leaves the new-Gen versions in a "winning light"...or at least I'm sure the manufacturers hope that's the case. Otherwise, why bother?!

New-Gen to new-Gen? Bring it on...which may not fully happen for a few years...

Regardless of loyalties, practicalities, engine architecture and possible engineering triumphs and add-ons, the Gen-5 Z/28 is establishing a "benchmark". For future Camaros, Fords, BMWs, et al...just as the BOSS LS before it...and many others before them. FACT.

Back to our regularly-scheduled programming...

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You're missing the point. "When you are producing 500 hp, you are burning 500 hp-worth of fuel."

I own a tweaked '87 Regal Turbo-T. Yes, I can get nearly 30 mpg with the car...but NOT when I'm demanding it deliver "500 hp"...

And THAT is the "lie" for this supposed "new-tech" forced induction solution. Idling along on the EPA drive dyno leads to erroneous F.E. numbers (even when "recalibrated"). Put the vehicle to its intended use, especially in a truck environment under load with a gasoline engine, and F.E. flies out the window.

Diesels are different, especially in a truck environment. In trucks, they barely recognize a load, as far as F.E. is concerned. Their F.E. degradation, unloaded vs. loaded, is nominal in comparison to a gas V8. Some gas V8s, when towing to max rating, drop in HALF or worse. You don't see that with diesels, when towing the same weight.

I don't understand why you are making a big deal about F.E. People that buy V8s are not too overly concerned about fuel economy, they get them for specific reasons(towing, racing, etc.) other than getting great MPG. But if you think Ford makes less efficient V8s, you failed to mention the Trinity engine. It gets better MPG than any Halo production engine GM makes, all while making more power too....amazing.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

I don't understand why you are making a big deal about F.E. People that buy V8s are not too overly concerned about fuel economy, they get them for specific reasons(towing, racing, etc.) other than getting great MPG. But if you think Ford makes less efficient V8s, you failed to mention the Trinity engine. It gets better MPG than any Halo production engine GM makes, all while making more power too....amazing.

This is impressive.

When Mr. LOWDOWN is Wrong he will try to shift the conversation in another direction.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

I don't understand why you are making a big deal about F.E. People that buy V8s are not too overly concerned about fuel economy, they get them for specific reasons(towing, racing, etc.) other than getting great MPG. But if you think Ford makes less efficient V8s, you failed to mention the Trinity engine. It gets better MPG than any Halo production engine GM makes, all while making more power too....amazing.

the 5.0 is also worse on fuel than the 5.3. weird!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

But they haven't, have they? And they don't intend to, do they?

6.2, as installed OEM, vs. 6.2. Sorry, but Ford Truck engines are NOT renowned for their F.E. in the real world...and this shining example is Ford's HALO. As far as power and F.E., it's no better than average...right? Average being those archaic useless underpowered pushrod thingies Mopar and GM insist on tricking people with...

Lowdown that is wrong, You can get the 6.2 in a xlt. It is rated at 13 &18 EPA 2wd

I know this will sound like a excuse but what would the gm engine be rated at without cylinder deactivation ?

[big hammer]

the 6.2 ford has been discontinued for the 2015 models. the only v8 they have left is the 5.0.

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by big hammer

the 5.0 is also worse on fuel than the 5.3. weird!

Trinity gets same as the Coyote in city (15mpg) and 2mpg less on the Hwy (24 vs 26)...what is your point? If MPG concerns you, buy a Prius.

[ssrs2lt]

im no gear head but I've learned a lot about engines in this thread..please proceed with the debate..

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

Trinity gets same as the Coyote in city (15mpg) and 2mpg less on the Hwy (24 vs 26)...what is your point? If MPG concerns you, buy a Prius.

what an incredibly obscene statement.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by big hammer

what an incredibly obscene statement.

Not to take this too far off track, but your signature and this recent thread

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...575790#:faint:

reminded me of this old post

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=2115

Looks like in the future he'll be able to respond "why now that you mention it, yes it was a convertible."

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Ford Truck engines are NOT renowned for their F.E. in the real world...

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

But if you think Ford makes less efficient V8s, you failed to mention the Trinity engine...

I missed the Dearborn Dispatch with the announcement of a Trinity-powered F-Series.

When was the Lightning re-launched?

Thought so...

As to your assertion that V8 truck buyers aren't concerned about FE, that is simply NOT true. Short of all-out racing (something almost no one buys a new truck for), FE is on the minds of anyone NOT a trust fund baby. Maybe not their paramount deciding factor, but it IS a consideration. But it's OBVIOUSLY not high on V8 Ford (and EcoBoost) Truck buyers' minds, apparently... Just take a look at sales (and supply problems) Ram is facing with their new small diesel engines. And the others will be forced to follow. Even high-tech, superior Ford...