[Unfair]

Cool, so when are they going to give the government back all the billions they borrowed from them?

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by OrangeCruSSh

Then I guess you are going to take out all of your money from your bank...stuff it in your mattress...pay cash for EVERY single item from this point on...pay off your mortgage/cars/and credit cards too? Seeings how every single bank took money from the Federal Government so they could be bailed out. Right? So your logic for not buying a GM product is that they took Federal bailout money? If I follow this logic it should apply to your banking choices as well. Best of luck to you friend.

What I do with my finances is my business. Also what I choose to buy. I've done my part and vote as an American to try and keep our country free. As for GM, I supported the first bankruptcy and federal money to help them out of it when it was proposed last year under the Bush administration. At that time, a re-organization of the business model would have left GM in a better situation than they are in now with very little to no Government control. I did not support the bailout then which only temporarily slowed it down until the current takeover by the Fed's which has given most non government power to the UAW and the rest to the Government. Ultimately my logic is simple.. I will support Ford at the moment in the future which has refused the bailout money and has a business model of building cars and trucks Americans want to buy without the least amount of Government intervention possible.. That is my personal choice and has no effect towards my love for old GM and its Camaro..

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Unfair

Cool, so when are they going to give the government back all the billions they borrowed from them?

Don't hold your breath, it will never happen...

[TomServo]

Originally Posted by Supermans

It matters in the legal sense.. But for many it is about American pride. I for one will not buy another Chevy vehicle while it is owned and operated by the current Government system. It is a personal choice and that is coming from someone who has bought two GM vehicles in less than 5 years time. I will support Ford down the line as long as they stay privately owned and operated as they currently are.. And believe me I am not making this decision lightly. I just hate it when the Government is trying to force you to buy a type of car I don't want.. The $3,500 back for your gas guzzling clunker is one such incentive. The cars you can trade in vs the cars you can choose is based on the disparity of how much the average miles per gallon savings you get. So All the car's I want are not included in the deal to buy.. Then you have the gas guzzler tax thrown in on top of the car I want and slowly the Government is trying to kill the market for the high powered performance vehicles like the Dodge Challenger and even the V8 Camaro SS which in the future may very well get the gas guzzler tax as well.. So you see it is a personal decision but one I have the right to make...




Name me one Government entity which actually cares to make a profit? The answer to that question is that there is none. More money will be thrown in to GM in Research and Development specifically for "greener vehicles" which in the long run is not what people want to be driving (however it is the current Governments goal to force you to buy one by making everything else more expensive and or more difficult) The other method is raise the "green" standards for all vehicles which design-wise also changes the way all the other vehicles are built so they meet new standards.. Do you see how internally and externally the Government is shaping and changing what should be the goal GM should have which is to make a profit and build cars people want to buy?

People want to buy the Camaro, Challenger, Mustang because they are cool looking cars first and foremost and have performance numbers to back them up.. Do you think the current Government wants those three cars to be the first thing people look for when deciding on a new car?

I just pray and hope things change back to an America I can be proud of once more. Where American's with ingenuity are creating products that people want to buy and are proud to buy.. Sadly I just don't see this as the goal anymore..

Since FORD borrowed BILLION's last fall (from who/where) can how is that any different?? Do you know who FORD borrowed all that $$ from. Guess you forget that FORD owes $32 BILLION dollars to these "unknown" sources.

How is that any different than GM's situation??

[sigma_1966]

just mentioned a plan with EBAY to bid online starting in California. Going to focus on Chev, Cadillac, Buick, GMC.

Originally Posted by Nezacant

There will be a press conference today at 9 AM EDT.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aCC7ukMB99sw

[ljustin293]

very interesting

[BigRigMike]

Originally Posted by Supermans

What I do with my finances is my business. Also what I choose to buy. I've done my part and vote as an American to try and keep our country free. As for GM, I supported the first bankruptcy and federal money to help them out of it when it was proposed last year under the Bush administration. At that time, a re-organization of the business model would have left GM in a better situation than they are in now with very little to no Government control. I did not support the bailout then which only temporarily slowed it down until the current takeover by the Fed's which has given most non government power to the UAW and the rest to the Government. Ultimately my logic is simple.. I will support Ford at the moment in the future which has refused the bailout money and has a business model of building cars and trucks Americans want to buy without the least amount of Government intervention possible.. That is my personal choice and has no effect towards my love for old GM and its Camaro..

I am a little confused. I always thought that the description you had in your sig was what you had on order but now I am assuming that is just what you would like to own but you are not going to buy?

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Supermans

You pre-ordered under old GM, and it was built under old GM..However you pick it up and pay for it under new GM..Legally you fall under new GM for any liability that will occur do to faulty mechanics that may cause personal injury to you...So I would say you fall under new GM as of today...But in reality your car was built by old GM technology and experience..If there is ever a redesign of the Camaro, new engine...more green version..Then I would call it new GM...

Just to be clear, any future legal claims still fall under the new GM. Only existing claims fall under the old GM and are now practically worthless. So even though my vehicle was built and sold under the old GM, if a defect is found next year and causes a lawsuit, the new GM would be the defendant.

[topgun1]

I think the hot-selling Camaro may have had a little something to do with GM coming out of bankruptcy earlier than expected.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by BigRigMike

I am a little confused. I always thought that the description you had in your sig was what you had on order but now I am assuming that is just what you would like to own but you are not going to buy?

The Camaro I ordered last year is on a train and reaching the dealership this weekend. I am still buying it and will own it for at least 10 years if not more.. I'm hoping during that time GM is sold back to the American people and out of Government hands by the time I am ready to buy my next car. I also hope that by then I can still buy a V8 Camaro...

Originally Posted by TomServo

Since FORD borrowed BILLION's last fall (from who/where) can how is that any different?? Do you know who FORD borrowed all that $$ from. Guess you forget that FORD owes $32 BILLION dollars to these "unknown" sources.

How is that any different than GM's situation??

Ford is not under Government control and is paying borrowed money back.. That is the big difference.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle5611933.ece

Ford refuses bailout despite $14.6 billion loss


I know this forum is filled with lots of Ford haters..That is OK, however my patriotic beliefs come first over brand loyalty.

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Just to be clear, any future legal claims still fall under the new GM. Only existing claims fall under the old GM and are now practically worthless. So even though my vehicle was built and sold under the old GM, if a defect is found next year and causes a lawsuit, the new GM would be the defendant.

Thanks for clearing that up.. I forgot to mention that part of the raw end of the stick for those with current claims against old GM..

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I know this forum is filled with lots of Ford haters..That is OK, however my patriotic beliefs come first over brand loyalty.

[txaggie_08]

Ford refuses bailout despite $14.6 billion loss

Ford initially did not refuse bailout money. They were at the doorsteps of the Capitol building asking for money last fall along with Gm and Chrysler. The government refused to give them money because they didn't need it. Ford's reasoning for wanting bailout money was to be "secured" in case GM or Chrysler went under. They stated that those companies going under would take them under as well.

After the fact, Ford has stated they never took any of the bailout money, trying to make it out as if they are perfect . Truth be told they were just denied the bailout. So yeah, they are right. They did not take any of the bailout money last Fall. The reason wasn't because they didn't want it though.

Don't get me confused as a GM loyalist. I am more loyal to Ford than GM. I've been driving a Ford F-150 for the past 6 years and will continue to drive while I have this Camaro. It was the first vehicle I was able to choose myself, and has been excellent in quality. The previous truck I drove was when I turned 16 and was just a hand-me-down. My next purchase after this Camaro will be a Ford. The only reason I am buying a GM product is because I really like the Camaro, and have never been much of a fan of the Mustang. Probably just because it seems like I pass atleast 10 a day driving down the road in Texas. I've gotten tired of looking at them.

[txaggie_08]

Also, the only reason Ford is in any better of a financial situation than GM or Chrysler and was able to weather the storm last year, is because they mortgaged everything they owned a few years ago to be able to continue to pay their bills. They have also done a little downsizing which was a great idea.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by txaggie_08

Also, the only reason Ford is in any better of a financial situation than GM or Chrysler and was able to weather the storm last year, is because they mortgaged everything they owned a few years ago to be able to continue to pay their bills. They have also done a little downsizing which was a great idea.

Ford also had a better business model when it came to selling cars people wanted. Ford refused the second bailout because of all the strings attached to it. With the only string attached being to pay it off, they probably would have taken it.. Ford is going to have a hard time competing with GM being run by the Government when the Government is pushing "green" technology. If GM had taken the bailout money the first time around last year, reorganized and got rid of all that was causing them to lose money, and re-worked the UAW contracts..I believe that today with the Camaro doing so well they would have by themselves been able to come out ahead and be paying off the original bailout. I believe that they would have been able to come out of Chapter 11 at around the same time as they are now with Camaro sales and excitement the way it is.. We can't change the past, we can only look forward which is what I am doing. There is an end-game to all of this and it will have to be settled in the ballot box. I am firmly against the Government taking control of everything as it is trying to do. My heart and prayers go out to those fighting for our freedom overseas.. And I will continue to fight for our freedoms on the shores as well as best as I can.. Which is in the ballot box..