[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 05stram

Your grip should be the fact you are forced to pump alcohol into your tank when you do not want to. If I want a higher octane fuel then I want a better fuel blend with a higher octane not moonshine in my tank.

?

Gasoline with ethanol (other than E85) has the same octane rating as normal dino-juice. When they add ethanol to the gasoline blend, they change the ratio of hydrocarbons in the mix. Less stuff with 8 or more carbon atoms in its chain, more stuff with 7 or less. In the end, it all averages out

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

?

Gasoline with ethanol (other than E85) has the same octane rating as normal dino-juice. When they add ethanol to the gasoline blend, they change the ratio of hydrocarbons in the mix. Less stuff with 8 or more carbon atoms in its chain, more stuff with 7 or less. In the end, it all averages out

Shh...he's on a roll man.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

Shh...he's on a roll man.

read a OPIS blending expansion/loss report troll - you will see that 85 is for blending to 87 and the other grades are not their octane equivalent before blending. Plus the energy efficiency is not the same with Ethanol.
I will believe OPIS over a post on an internet post any day

lots of double standards on this forum

here found you a website that proves what I said is true http://www.biofuels.nsw.gov.au/biofu...0_fuel_economy

[05stram]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

?

Gasoline with ethanol (other than E85) has the same octane rating as normal dino-juice. When they add ethanol to the gasoline blend, they change the ratio of hydrocarbons in the mix. Less stuff with 8 or more carbon atoms in its chain, more stuff with 7 or less. In the end, it all averages out

http://www.biofuels.nsw.gov.au/biofu...0_fuel_economy by just googling real quick there you go a government website which stated just like I did that cheaper gasoline is used to get the octane rating.
Run older cars which hate the ethanol and you can sure tell when you get pure gas vs ethanol induced lobbying.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by 05stram

read a OPIS blending expansion/loss report troll - you will see that 85 is for blending to 87 and the other grades are not their octane equivalent before blending. Plus the energy efficiency is not the same with Ethanol.
I will believe OPIS over a post on an internet post any day

lots of double standards on this forum

here found you a website that proves what I said is true http://www.biofuels.nsw.gov.au/biofu...0_fuel_economy

I was going for the animal house reference. Not trolling.

[Mr. Unassailable]

"To the industry, a gallon of gasoline is the amount of fuel that occupies 231 cubic inches at 60 degrees. But at 75 degrees, the same amount of fuel occupies 233.4 cubic inches. At 90 degrees, the gas expands to 235.8 cubic inches."

[Mr. Unassailable]

Additionally,
4.8 ci = .02078 Gallons

@$4/gallon the difference in 60° and 90° fuel is .08 cents per gallon. On a 35 gallon tank fill up (of my F250) I typically pay over $100 for 25 gallons. @ $100 (assuming $4/gallon) thats 25 gallons. 25 * .08 = $2.

So on a large tank fill up, worst case scenario I'm paying $2 more.

The problem with the mans theory is that the ground temperature does not change that much. I doubt the ground temp changes more than 5° over the course of a day. Probably more like 2-3°. And that worst case scenario is assuming the ground tank temp changed 30° from morning to afternoon.

I'm not changing my schedule to potentially save a few pennies.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by 05stram

read a OPIS blending expansion/loss report troll - you will see that 85 is for blending to 87 and the other grades are not their octane equivalent before blending. Plus the energy efficiency is not the same with Ethanol.
I will believe OPIS over a post on an internet post any day

lots of double standards on this forum

here found you a website that proves what I said is true http://www.biofuels.nsw.gov.au/biofu...0_fuel_economy

Also note I was not the one who questioned your statement. DG did. So direct your anger at the right person.

[Mr. Unassailable]

Also found a few things on the temps of underground tanks.

"While density may change with temperature, underground storage tanks sit 15 to 20 feet below the surface so the fuel stays around 55 degrees Fahrenheit. Bruce Bragg, national account sales manager for fuel-dispensing equipment manufacturer Catlow and a 30-year engineer for a major oil company says one of the only times that you'll find a warmer, less-dense gas is if the fuel doesn't have time to cool off after being pumped into the underground tanks. Fuel temperature stabilizes quickly, so the chances of this making any difference are slim."


http://soilphysics.okstate.edu/softw...e/document.pdf

In the above you will find a chart that shows ground temp changes over the course of several years. at 1.6m the change from day to day is less than 1° C. At .05m below the surface the largest change observed is about 4° C.

Further supporting the idea of not bothering with what time you get gas.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

Also note I was not the one who questioned your statement. DG did. So direct your anger at the right person.

not angry just thought you were trolling so I apologize - bad morning I hate Mondays especially after being out till 2AM on a call - gotta love server farm heat issues at 11 PM on Sunday nights

After reading that man what an ass I can be sometimes. Once again I apologize

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 05stram

http://www.biofuels.nsw.gov.au/biofu...0_fuel_economy by just googling real quick there you go a government website which stated just like I did that cheaper gasoline is used to get the octane rating.
Run older cars which hate the ethanol and you can sure tell when you get pure gas vs ethanol induced lobbying.

That page does not say that cheaper fuel is used with ethanol to bring it up (which, incidentally, happens to be what I was saying in the post you quoted). They are saying that adding ethanol to regular increases its octane rating (which, I'll admit, is more or less what you said in the first place). But that is quite different from taking low grade gas, adding ethanol, and getting back to 'normal'. One results in 87 octane fuel, the other results in 90. Either way, your engine isn't going to be any more prone to knocking with ethanol fuel. Its going to be the same, or better. But not worse.

The 91-92 RON gasoline that they mention isn't a low-grade premium. Its what we would call '87 regular' in North America. There are 3 different octane ratings for gasoline. RON (research octane number), MON (motor octane number) and AKI (anti-knock index). I won't go into the details but RON and MON are just 2 different ways to test a fuel. AKI is an average of those two results and is the rating system that we use in North America (as well as in Australia -which makes it very strange that an Aussie site used RON).

What that page does say (and this is something I question them on) is that when you raise the octane rating of regular gas, the engine will compensate & improve its efficiency slightly. I have never heard of an engine self adjusting to run better on a fuel with a higher octane than is recommended for it. They'll adjust timing & such to compensate for lower octane, but I've never heard of a car doing the reverse. Maybe its true, but I've never heard of it happening.

As for older cars running poorly on ethanol fuel, are you sure that its the ethanol and not the lack of other additives that have since been eliminated, such as tetra-ethyl-lead? Plus, I thought that most of the complaints regarding older cars using ethanol isn't the engine knocking but rather the damage caused by water in the fuel -which was a particular problem with older production techniques, less so now (but not completely eliminated either).

By the way, those lead based fuels probably had more 'cheap low octane' gasoline chemicals in it than modern ethanol fuels do, due to the fact that TEL has a rediculously high capacity for reducing knock. So back in the day, you probably burnt less actual octane (C8H18) in your gasoline than you do now. No point to that, just a little comment I thought I'd share.

[05stram]

When is the test?

[djsnoflake]

You guys don't have volume corrected pumps in the states?

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by djsnoflake

You guys don't have volume corrected pumps in the states?

It's not that we don't have them...none of us are CERTAIN that they are at every pump station