[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

You can't compare HP numbers if you're going to change the rest of the car. The C6 is faster with less HP because it is a different car.

Lol... Exactly the c7/lt1 car is a different car then the c6/ls3 car. Last time the vette got faster with less peak power but better average power and the lt1 is doing the same thing except this time it's going to have better peak and average power in a car that should be lighter.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Number 3

CAFE is still a b*tch, even for top end performance cars.

Why? I remember not long ago when the auto makers would get together and stand up against this nonsense. There's no reason they can't stand up to the bullies.

This is a good time to do it because there is a lot of public awareness of how harmful bullying is.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

As far as weight and complexity, it's interesting you brought this up. There was an article where they asked that exact question. A powertrain development engineer stated that they considered many option/variants, etc...and that the results in efficiency/performance of the added features of the engine far outweighed any loss attributed to weight.

What do you think GM is going to tell us? I doubt anyone would say "It's useless and heavy and has to be included purely as a P.R. move"!

We know for a fact that it adds weight and complexity and perhaps you could find a tiny bit of fuel economy, but we can safely bet it will make modding more difficult and adds cost to the sticker price.

This technology may be fine for a sedan or something, but I don't know anyone with a Corvette who would ask for this. For the price this adds they could get a standard Full color HUD with Navigation, better interior plastics, or some feature they actually care about.

[right to travel]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Why? I remember not long ago when the auto makers would get together and stand up against this nonsense. There's no reason they can't stand up to the bullies.

This is a good time to do it because there is a lot of public awareness of how harmful bullying is.

you think the government write these regs :belly roll:


stop drinking the kool aid and wake up car companies write theses regs pass them to their lobbying firms and they get what they want passed and not bit more. CAFE in reality means nothing to major car companies they can sh*t out crappy four bangers with what they have convinced every one is great fuel economy when in reality if you look back 20 years nothing has changed in reguard to the ability to buy a car that gets 40 mpg except the fact there are more of them. this also means that the premium for a "gas guzzler" goes up bcuz of the stigma. hell a grand prix gtp supercharged got 32 hwy bck in the day. its all a game they are playing to get certain ppl to buy more of certain types of cars. if carmakers were at all serious about efficiency better material would be used and cars would be getting lighter not heavier

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

What do you think GM is going to tell us? I doubt anyone would say "It's useless and heavy and has to be included purely as a P.R. move"!

We know for a fact that it adds weight and complexity and perhaps you could find a tiny bit of fuel economy, but we can safely bet it will make modding more difficult and adds cost to the sticker price.

This technology may be fine for a sedan or something, but I don't know anyone with a Corvette who would ask for this. For the price this adds they could get a standard Full color HUD with Navigation, better interior plastics, or some feature they actually care about.

Well, of course they wouldn't pitch it as added weight, increased complexity, added cost, etc, etc....

But I'm also not operating under the assumption that they're morons, or that I know any better. Until this engine makes it to market, and we get some impressions/experience with it. I'm not going to condemn anything.

From a paper-only perspective, this is a VERY impressive power-plant. Its got the same or smaller external dimensions of the LS3, with more power, while being more efficient, and a stupid-flat torque curve under 4000rpms.

I can't justify the coulda' shoulda' woulda's because it's like Mustang vs Camaro: they're different cars. In this case, the Gen IV and Gen V engines are entirely different engines! Too much different to become malcontent about the new LT1 until we know more.

Forgive me for assuming things, but you appear to be bent on hating this thing no matter what...why?

Originally Posted by right to travel

if carmakers were at all serious about efficiency better material would be used and cars would be getting lighter not heavier

If only it were that simple...safety regs & a desire for high crash-test ratings require the extra materials and airbags...adding weight. And that's the real simple version.

[big hammer]

the same mag that accurately predicted this engine and it's power output, also said there will be a 570 hp 7.0L and the zr1 will have 700 hp. interesting tidbit there.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Forgive me for assuming things, but you appear to be bent on hating this thing no matter what...why?

On a purely technical level, I don't hate it. I just don't LOVE it. On paper it doesn't jump out as amazing. Maybe in actual driving conditions it will fell more impressive. Right now I get the feeling it will be like getting a brand new PC with 2x the RAM and 2x the clock speed and 2x the cores and still sitting around waiting 2 minutes to do a cold boot in Windows.

On an emotional level, I am offended by compromises made in the design to please certain people who hate these cars and these engines. I can't go into any more detail.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by big hammer

the same mag that accurately predicted this engine and it's power output, also said there will be a 570 hp 7.0L and the zr1 will have 700 hp. interesting tidbit there.

That's more like it.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by right to travel

you think the government write these regs :belly roll:


stop drinking the kool aid and wake up car companies write theses regs pass them to their lobbying firms and they get what they want passed and not bit more. CAFE in reality means nothing to major car companies they can sh*t out crappy four bangers with what they have convinced every one is great fuel economy when in reality if you look back 20 years nothing has changed in reguard to the ability to buy a car that gets 40 mpg except the fact there are more of them. this also means that the premium for a "gas guzzler" goes up bcuz of the stigma. hell a grand prix gtp supercharged got 32 hwy bck in the day. its all a game they are playing to get certain ppl to buy more of certain types of cars. if carmakers were at all serious about efficiency better material would be used and cars would be getting lighter not heavier

This post is so full of fail that it has gone past "epic" and into "lengendary" territory.

I'm going to ignore most of it and address the most crazy point... This has nothing to do with lobbying or wanting to sell crappy cars. There's no profit in econoboxes. There's no reason they would want to make it so they need to sell more of them.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

On a purely technical level, I don't hate it. I just don't LOVE it. On paper it doesn't jump out as amazing. Maybe in actual driving conditions it will fell more impressive. Right now I get the feeling it will be like getting a brand new PC with 2x the RAM and 2x the clock speed and 2x the cores and still sitting around waiting 2 minutes to do a cold boot in Windows.

On an emotional level, I am offended by compromises made in the design to please certain people who hate these cars and these engines. I can't go into any more detail.

That's fair enough. I was curious to know your motivations.

From my perspective, I see this as glass half-full. I'm impressed that in light of all the things you mentioned, they're still able to produce a potent engine of this output.

What's that philosophy topic, perspectivism? Relativism? I can't remember....

[Cymaro]

Wonder how the high compression ratio and DI will effect aftermarket superchargers.

[PQ]

A client of mine talked about this yesterday. He didn't know much about the 5th Gen Camaro engines so it was all pretty exciting to him.

Knowing what I know about our engines already I am less than impressed because I expected it. Doesn't make it any less cool though.

It's the Z06 that I'll be interested in hearing about. They are going to have to come HARD with the Z06 since the Camaro has a trim that can beat the current one.

Win Win for the Vette guys.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Cymaro

Wonder how the high compression ratio and DI will effect aftermarket superchargers.

In theory, the cooling effect of DI should make for better FI applications...

But unfortunately, it sounds like it'll be next to impossible to properly tune the engine...like the current V6s. The engineers spoke to that directly in an interview...:(

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

In theory, the cooling effect of DI should make for better FI applications...

But unfortunately, it sounds like it'll be next to impossible to properly tune the engine...like the current V6s. The engineers spoke to that directly in an interview...:(

With our supercharger systems, we are having good luck at up to around 7 psi. IPF superchargers seem to run well there but do not offer boost higher than that.

Owners of the RX supercharger kit have tried to go higher with bad results.

I'm not the best at explainin so here is a quote from a tuner:

"You're exceeding the limits of the fuel system and it’s causing injection window misfire (which causes poor combustion). It’s trying to inject too much fuel. It’s a DI motor which means it has to inject the fuel between the time the intake valve closes and the time it’s ready to ignite the mixture. At 5000 RPM the fuel demand is such that it’s still trying to inject fuel when it’s trying to ignite the spark plug. It’s like peeing on a fire, it doesn’t work so well. It causes misfiring, which causes excess oxygen to come out the tailpipe, leading to a leaner-than-actual reading."

The IPF kit on the LFX V6 is capable of over 400rwhp. I guess with similar boost on the new LT1 you'd be in the range of 550 or 600rwhp or more.....who knows lol.

With tuning on the LFX looking to be more accessible to a wider range of tuners than the LLT V6 in the 2010s and 2011s, we have guys with twin turbo setups that should be able to get well past 400rwhp but at this point running big boost is impossible. Hopefully that will change.