[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I don't have either a GT500 or ZL1 or plan on getting either, so I really don't have a dog in the fight. But I read the article you mention because of general interest and I just don't reach the same conclusions as you.

I've said it before, and ignoring for a second the MSRP differences, I think the Boss 302 LS was put against the ZL1, because they are the "track cars" of the Mustang and Camaro lines. At least in the eyes of the greater automotive world. All the most recent articles regarding the Mustang included the Boss 302 LS, because I think that is currently Fords marketing focus until the 2013 GT500 is out. So I don't particularly find it strange the two were put against each other.

I said it in the other thread, too but the ZL1 out-performed the Boss 302 LS in more than just straight power. Here is a quote I lifted from that article in the other thread. I know I'm repeating myself, but I just reject the claim the ZL1 only won because of the power advantage:



I have no reason to believe that based on the Motortrned article, and the data provided in the charts, that the ZL1 only won because of the power advantage.

I know you wanted to see the ZL1 against a GT500 with the SVTPP, but I don't think there was any conspiracy theory behind it. Motortrend has been very good to the new Mustang in my opinion ever since they put it up against the M3.

We have differing views and that is 100% fine and I respect that. After all, just because we read the same stuff, doesn't mean we understood it the same way. I sit here now and just thought to myself...which car do I want to win? Honestly, my answer is, I really don't care. I can tell you one thing for sure, when I go out to a roadcourse, the GT500 will stay in the garage and the ZL1 goes out to play. I love my 2011 GT500 and getting the new one should be tempting but I much rather have the ZL1 even if it ends up a "little" slower (in the hands of a pro) than the new GT500.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

We have differing views and that is 100% fine and I respect that. After all, just because we read the same stuff, doesn't mean we understood it the same way. I sit here now and just thought to myself...which car do I want to win? Honestly, my answer is, I really don't care. I can tell you one thing for sure, when I go out to a roadcourse, the GT500 will stay in the garage and the ZL1 goes out to play. I love my 2011 GT500 and getting the new one should be tempting but I much rather have the ZL1 even if it ends up a "little" slower (in the hands of a pro) than the new GT500.

Cool as long as i'm not lumped into the "in denial" crowd haha, I've at least shown you how my opinion was formed by what was written verbatim in the article.

[truth411]

What's up with all the haters? The ZL1 is a track car that can also perform well at the drag strip on the weekends while haveing a better ride quality on the weekdays than the competitors. I don't know why the heavy emphasis on just 1/4 mile, the tech in the ZL1 is clearly aimed at track performance, and at The moment its the fastest muscle car for the road course period.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by truth411

What's up with all the haters? The ZL1 is a track car that can also perform well at the drag strip on the weekends while haveing a better ride quality on the weekdays than the competitors. I don't know why the heavy emphasis on just 1/4 mile, the tech in the ZL1 is clearly aimed at track performance, and at The moment its the fastest muscle car for the road course period.

Not an entirely accurate statement.

We haven't seen lap times from tracks that both the GT500 and ZL1 have run.

I wish the ZL1 vs Boss test would have been against the GT500 instead of the Boss.

But I would expect the ZL1 to be faster around the track than a 2012 GT500.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Not an entirely accurate statement.

We haven't seen lap times from tracks that both the GT500 and ZL1 have run.

I wish the ZL1 vs Boss test would have been against the GT500 instead of the Boss.

But I would expect the ZL1 to be faster around the track than a 2012 GT500.

I don't think the 2012 GT500 is quicker than the Boss LS mustang generally speaking on a race track unless the track is full of long straights. The LS mustang has R-compound tires no back seat, front spliter etc... And very importantly don't have 57% of its weight over its front wheels and about 200lbs lighter than the GT500. On a somewhat short road course that the motortrend used the GT500 would have lost. The LS can put the power down much better in and exiting the corners, and the ZL1 is quicker than the LS. The 2012 GT500 dont run on r-compound tires, I don't see how it could hang with the ZL1 on that day of Motortrend test. Besides if they did test it against the GT500, then you would have people complaining that they didn't test it against fords best track car, the Boss LS Mustang. Hmmm dang if you do and dang if you don't situation imo.

[Sax1031]

The only track that both the GT500 and Boss LS have been tested at the GT500 was faster around the track.

Also the track in the test of the ZL1 vs Boss LS was more of a power track with the long straights and was at 4000ft.

An NA car is going to suffer a lot more at altitude than a forced induction car.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The only track that both the GT500 and Boss LS have been tested at the GT500 was faster around the track.

Also the track in the test of the ZL1 vs Boss LS was more of a power track with the long straights and was at 4000ft.

An NA car is going to suffer a lot more at altitude than a forced induction car.

I don't know that PD supercharging has the same immunity to elevation as turbochargers......

And while your observations of Inde are valid...it was highlighted that the ZL1 gained ground in each of the corners, except for one. I just wanted to raise that point lest we forget and begin to marginalize the performance too much...

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't know that PD supercharging has the same immunity to elevation as turbochargers......

And while your observations of Inde are valid...it was highlighted that the ZL1 gained ground in each of the corners, except for one. I just wanted to raise that point lest we forget and begin to marginalize the performance too much...

forced induction cars create atmosphere. a turbo is better at this than a supercharger, but not by a lot.

na car is going to lose power bad at altitude.

I am not trying to say the ZL1 is not a great handling car.

I still wish it was a GT500 vs a ZL1 test.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

forced induction cars create atmosphere. a turbo is better at this than a supercharger, but not by a lot.

I'm sure this is a great topic for a new thread -- based on what reading I've done in the past, superchargers can only provide boost dependent on ambient pressures because they operate on a fixed ratio to engine speed via belt-drive. Turbos are the half of Forced Induction that don't care, because they're controlled via boost solenoids and waste-gates.

That's why I said what I did...based on this, I'm not sure the elevation would have favored any car that day more than the other.

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I am not trying to say the ZL1 is not a great handling car.

I still wish it was a GT500 vs a ZL1 test.

Fair enough.

[Sax1031]

The blower is going to pump around 60% more air to the engine as the na counterpart.

The N/A was starving.

Now when they put the ZL1 against the GT-R. The GT-R's turbo setup is more efficient. The turbo, unless it reaches it max speed, will be able to still maintain PSI.

The blower car probably lost in the ballpark of 3-4 PSI compared to the turbo car. The N/A car is suffocating though.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by goodtime

Why is that so hard to comprehend? The tires and wheels were left over from my 2011 GT. You confirmed every rational person who has posted in this thread thoughts on how narrow minded you are even when presented with the facts or evidence. You try to twist and manipulate the argument to your favor but just can't quite make it so. Kind of like a politician who is backed into a corner with no place to go.

IMO the ZL1 falls short of everyone's expectations except the fanboy. The quarter mile is my type of racing amd can't wait to line my $26K Mustang GT up against a ZL1 and deliver the spanking.

BAAAHHHAHAHA Don't make me laugh! Best joke I have heard all day. You really think your Mustang GT is going to beat a 2012 ZL1 with launch control and ptm? I dont care what weight advantage that wont happen and I dont care what mods you have either. Most ZL1's will be modded at the track and will likely have more power than your GT. Sorry but that was a fanboy statement at its finest there.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Really they should just compare the 2012 GT500 to the 2012 Camaro ZL1
Why everyone is making a big deal out of the 2013 Shelby GT500 I dont know. If they up the power in the 13 ZL1 then just compare it to that model year to model year in all fairness. Still dont get why Mustang fans feel the need to come to this forum and down the ZL1 like this. If you dont like it fine then dont come on here and bad mouth it. I especially wouldnt be bad mouthing it when the Camaro is going to be losing weight soon and the Mustang and it will have the same weight. I think that will pretty much make this argument about which car is better null and void by that point.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Right...but what I'm getting at is both engines should have lost an equal percentage of power, no? I can't fathom how the blower can fare so well in a lighter atmosphere...it can't spin faster to make up for it...which means there's less air to "grab" - the same problem a NA has.

you get conflicting arguments on the matter

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

you get conflicting arguments on the matter

I'm beginning to realize. I actually deleted that post after revisiting the topic....hmm...