[WadeWilson]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

Yeah the GT500 looks good but next to a Camaro ZL1 90% of the population of car buyers will pick the ZL1 based on looks alone. While yeah the GT500 looks better than all other Mustangs to most people it is still just another Mustang just dressed up to look nicer. Yeah you could say something similar to the ZL1 but it has a design edge that the Mustang doesnt have at the moment we will have to wait and see what Ford does design wise with the new 6th Gen Mustang. Even then I would be scared to plop down money on a new gen Mustang when more than likely the following year the new Camaro will come out looking better and being faster. And as far as the engines go yeah what Ford is able to do with their 5.8 is impressive but Chevrolet is bringing its next gen V8's next year they are just getting by with what they have for now.

I love my Camaro, but I'd take the GT500 over the ZL1 in a second. I don't care for the front end of the ZL1 nor do I like the hood. I would also much prefer having 650HP in a 3,850 pound car than 580HP in a 4,160 pound car. Don't get me wrong, the ZL1 is a nice enough car, but it's not the holy grail that some people want to make it out to be.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

I can find videos of auto experts in the industry saying the 60's Stingray is the best car design they have ever seen. Peter Delorenzo has said it multiple times on Autoline After Hours that to his eyes it is still the best design ever. Sorry but I have never heard someone compair a Ford GT in that same way just saying.

I can find videos of big foot in the Michigan woods.

[YourBlindingBias]

I know this is a camaro forum and bias is normal but this is on the extreme side.
You're basically shooting down ANYTHING that comes form ford no matter if it's better technology or isn't.
I'm sorry to say but I think you are even making your brethren embarrassed for you on this one thread.

The gt500 track apps make you yawn? but the voice nav are higher technology on the camaro?

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by rez333

HA HA!!! He beat me to it!

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

I know this is a camaro forum and bias is normal but this is on the extreme side.
You're basically shooting down ANYTHING that comes form ford no matter if it's better technology or isn't.
I'm sorry to say but I think you are even making your brethren embarrassed for you on this one thread.

The gt500 track apps make you yawn? but the voice nav are higher technology on the camaro?

No not necessarily just that I didnt find it all that impressive just saying. Im not saying the voice nav on the Camaro is great they still have some improvements to make.

[WadeWilson]

http://m.caranddriver.com/feature.rb...=true&emvcc=-3

Who would have thought that with 50-mpg fuel-economy rules around the corner, Ford would be striving to push a version of the Mustang above 200 mph? It wasn’t long ago that such a top speed was strictly reserved for wedge-shaped exotica.

But 200 mph is exactly what SVT’s 650-hp 2013 Shelby GT500 aims to do. That it also neatly trumps the upcoming 580-hp Chevy Camaro ZL1—and even surpasses the 638-hp Corvette ZR1’s output—means there’s another battle mounting in the horsepower war.

Jamal Hameedi, Ford SVT’s chief engineer, says the one-upmanship is all innocent: “Our 2011 Mustang Boss 302 was so fast that it was nipping at the heels of our current GT500. We started looking for ways to maintain the GT500’s performance increment, and this model is the result.”

The new GT500 won’t go on sale until May, but we’ve uncovered the changes that produced this major performance leap.



With a 200-mph top speed as their goal, the SVT engineers altered the GT500’s gearing. They changed the final-drive ratio from 3.55:1 (or optional 3.73:1) to 3.31:1 to give the GT500 longer legs, and five of the six gearbox ratios are new. First gear goes from 2.97:1 to 2.66:1, which, combined with the differential change, reduces maximum rear-wheel torque by a couple of percent from the 2012 model’s, despite the engine’s 90-pound-foot bump. Hameedi explains, “We already had more first-gear torque than we needed, so this makes it easier to launch the car.”

Speaking of which, off-the-line performance is now aided by a launch-control *system. Engine rpm is adjustable from 2500 to 5500 to match the available traction. According to Hameedi, “Only a pro can beat it—and that’s on a perfect day.”

To transmit the extra output, the GT500’s dual-plate clutch has grown in diameter from 9.4 inches to 10.2, and the transmission feeds the power to the differential via a one-piece carbon-fiber driveshaft. This unit is stiff enough to resist vibration at 200 mph and also saves several pounds over the previous two-piece steel shaft.

During engineering tests at the Nardo track in Italy, this GT500 has already achieved 202 mph. The gearing changes and higher redline allow this Shelby to hit 60 mph in first gear and in no more than 3.7 seconds; we expect a quarter-mile time in the mid-11s.

Between 155 mph—the governed top speed of the current GT500—and the 200-mph max of the new model, aerodynamic forces rise by 115 percent. Enhancing stability was therefore critical, so the SVT engineers concentrated on the GT500’s front end. A new fascia and splitter produce about a third more downforce than the previous model had while maintaining good front-rear balance. Another aerodynamic goal was to increase airflow to the various coolers to dissipate the more powerful engine’s higher heat loads. But Ford was careful not to increase drag, lest the 200-mph target fall out of reach. In the end, the engineers balanced all of these tasks while slightly improving the GT500’s drag coefficient.



“Making power was the easy part; making it durable was the challenge,” says Hameedi. Numerous changes ensure that the Shelby V-8 can withstand higher stresses.

This monster engine has stronger forged connecting rods, a new crankshaft balanced with tungsten inserts, and four-layer head gaskets to deal with the elevated combustion pressures.

Drilled passages in the water jackets of the heads and block direct coolant to hot spots. Also, there are tougher exhaust valves and seats, as well as oil squirters to cool the pistons’ undersides. The latter change necessitated a higher-volume oil pump, a windage tray integrated with the oil-pan gasket, and a new aluminum oil pan that increases capacity 1.5 quarts to 8.0.

If you order the Track package with your GT500, you get a trio of coolers to help your car survive sustained high-speed running. One air-oil cooler supplements the engine’s standard oil-water heat exchanger. There are also transmission and differential coolers.

The idea is to let owners exploit the car’s perform*ance during drag-strip use, so there is no limit on the number of starts made with launch control.

[rez333]

Originally Posted by SIRLOIN

See, thats what im talkin about. By him saying what he did, and then information like this comes out, it makes him look incompetent...IMO. The last thing you want to see is imcompetence coming from the chief engineer on the ZL1. I really wish he would just stop talking... Now that he has publicly set the bar so high by his own words, if the outcome doesnt go his way it will be a fiasco. That is not smart... Also by him saying all this stuff, and writing these letters, it gave ALOT of the fuel to the mustang fans to come here and 'defend' their car to which alot of people always bitch about on this forum...That right there is another...

that's my point too. It reminds me of all those UFC fighters talking smack just before they get beaten. They do it for show and to build up the excitement, but when this comes from a car exec - it just makes them look stupid. If the ZL1 is better - then let it be better on its own merits, rather than better because Al said so.

I noticed Ford hasn't sent some pontiff to answer to Al. We can clearly see why at Chevy, Fanboys run deep.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

I have seen it it made me yawn nothing impressive to see here.

My god you are bias, you are so blind Christ himself couldn't make you see again, Chevy is getting its ass handed to it by Ford and Dodge in this sense, the Camaro has technology from 1990 powering it's HUD for god sakes the HUD has barely changed since it was introduced into the Chevy lineup by way of the Corvette and you say that is unimpressive. Their are not enough :facepalms: in the world to describe the fail of this post.....

[YourBlindingBias]

Hoverboards: ehh chevy has onstar, unimpressive.

[rez333]

No point arguing with BMD. You need the ability for introspection in order to be open-minded.

[The IOM Ninja]

Indeed

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

There has to be a ceiling to the horsepower wars, I just hope its reached by the manufacturers before the govt brings down the hammer and I think the ZL1 will be leading the way.

Why do people keep saying that. What do you think the government will do? They do not dictate what car manufacturers can make, or how much horsepower is a limit. The instead rely on things like CAFE and other regulations to discourage the industry from producing inefficient cars/trucks. If the modern horsepower wars end, it will be because the manufacturer is no longer able to justify making them, not because the government "brings down the hammer". Contrary to popular belief, the horsepower wars of the '60's/'70's did not end because the government mandated that they stop making high-horsepower vehicles, it ended because fuel prices went so high nobody was looking at buying them. Instead, people began looking for more fuel efficient options.

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Why do people keep saying that. What do you think the government will do? They do not dictate what car manufacturers can make, or how much horsepower is a limit. The instead rely on things like CAFE and other regulations to discourage the industry from producing inefficient cars/trucks. If the modern horsepower wars end, it will be because the manufacturer is no longer able to justify making them, not because the government "brings down the hammer". Contrary to popular belief, the horsepower wars of the '60's/'70's did not end because the government mandated that they stop making high-horsepower vehicles, it ended because fuel prices went so high nobody was looking at buying them. Instead, people began looking for more fuel efficient options.

too much knowledge in this post

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by SIRLOIN

See, thats what im talkin about. By him saying what he did, and then information like this comes out, it makes him look incompetent...IMO. The last thing you want to see is imcompetence coming from the chief engineer on the ZL1. I really wish he would just stop talking... Now that he has publicly set the bar so high by his own words, if the outcome doesnt go his way it will be a fiasco. That is not smart... Also by him saying all this stuff, and writing these letters, it gave ALOT of the fuel to the mustang fans to come here and 'defend' their car to which alot of people always bitch about on this forum...That right there is another...

and this is what I have been saying the whole time...since the "camaro nation" panic letter after the 650hp GT500 announcement. Then there were more positive GT500 predictions by mags, and he comes out with "simulation" bench racing predictions that he says the ZL1 will beat the GT500, yada yada. I can't wait to have a ZL1 but I wish Al would have just taken the high road and let the car do that talking instead of all his smack talking that seem to be pure damage control now. I wonder what he will say when all the nubers add up in favor of the GT500? He is probably going to blame the simulator.