[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Oh, also, what about the muriel of Sandusky on the football stadium/complex that they JUST today painted over. Why was that even still up there? They still had this guys picture on the football stadium up until today. What does that tell you?

How is this even relevant?

It tells me that the university doesn't act in haste. There was no reason to cover it up. The man had not been formally accused nor arrested by the police/district attorney.

Additionally, when was the mural painted? How big of a figure did Sandusky play in the mural? Did the University Administration have to be reminded that he was on the mural?

Do you know the answers? cause I don't. What it does tell me, is that as soon as he was formally arrested and this portion of the mural was brought to the appropriate administrations attention, it was rectified.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

How is this even relevant?

It tells me that the university doesn't act in haste. There was no reason to cover it up. The man had not been formally accused nor arrested by the police/district attorney.

Additionally, when was the mural painted? How big of a figure did Sandusky play in the mural? Did the University Administration have to be reminded that he was on the mural?

Do you know the answers? cause I don't. What it does tell me, is that as soon as he was formally arrested and this portion of the mural was brought to the appropriate administrations attention, it was rectified.

Are you freaking kidding me? They had visual confirmation of what this SOB did. He admitted earlier in 1998 that he had touched boys inappropriately. What more do they need? They had every reason to sever ties with him, but yet they did not. This is not a he said/he said case which would have been a totally different situation. The GA saw what he did.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by PQ

I totaly agree.

BUT, again, put yourself in Joes shoes. GA comes to you and reports that he SAW that. Heard, saw, doesn't matter, you have to protect what you love. And for Joe it was his program in this case. To simply report it and forget it is negligence. RAPE??? I'm sorry, but I know better than that.

I'm NOT saying Joe Paterno should be held criminaly responsible, but he let down that kid and a few kids later as well. And so did ANYONE at that school with knowlege of this at the time.

So, Joe Paterno has the power to tell the whole school "Screw you, I'm not quiting. I'll coach until I decide I want to quit" but doesn't have the power to make sure Sandusky is brought to light? The GA waited a day to report what he witnessed and Joe waited another day to report after that. THAT'S what's so disturbing here.

I certainly hope I'm wrong.

AND I'M JUST GOING BY WHAT I'M FINDING OUT. And Joe Paternos own words.

Bottom line, the most powerful, influential and capable person in this whole thing was Joe. And he dropped the ball. I hate to use the old clishe' but it fits here. With great power comes great responsibility. If those who are capable and influential won't help, it makes it much harder.

Absolutely agree 100%

He should be ashamed of himself to the uttmost.

Agreed.

But even though Sandusky didn't work for Joe, Joe had the power ot make sure something was done.

I don't disagree with you, but I know for a fact, from my friends working in the administration of another world class university that there are strict HR policies and procedures that must be followed when dealing with illegal activity that occurs on university property. I don't know what PSU's procedures are but if during that time Joe consulted with the University counsel (lawyer) and was told to follow the letter of the rules and never say anything else, he's doing as he should.

This is indeed how it goes where I work. Whenever we think we are venturing into a potential legal area we are to immediately involve company counsel and discuss everything with them and do whatever they recommend. No more, no less. JoePa, ultimately, as an employee of the university under contract and under their rules would have had to follow them. Lest he be fired for cause.

And JoePa doesn't really say "screw you, im coaching until I want" they just give Joe incredibly long amounts of time to make his decision and keep him around even when the contract expires. They also keep him involved in the search for his replacement.

Sandusky was going to replace JoePa until Joe put the kibosh on it. This is what directly lead to Sandusky's retirement in 1999

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Are you freaking kidding me? They had visual confirmation of what this SOB did. He admitted earlier in 1998 that he had touched boys inappropriately. What more do they need? They had every reason to sever ties with him, but yet they did not. This is not a he said/he said case which would have been a totally different situation. The GA saw what he did.

Ok, I've been completely calm and rational in all of my responses. I would appreciate the same in return.

However, think about it for 1 second. You have an alumnus and 30+ year employee who up until this had done nothing (that you know of officially, nowhere does it say that the university police, local police, and the DA told the administration) to ever sully the reputation of PSU.

Then you receive this report on the eye witness report of 1 person. They then ban this person from the football facilities and revoke his keys and ban him from ever bringing children from his charity to the campus anymore or using the campus for those types of events. All very appropriate measures. The fact that they didn't immediately run out and paint over a mural does not bother me.

Would you like the supreme court to remove the statue of Muhammed? Would you like all the refineries in the United States to pull the valves they have from the 1933 era Germany which are all stamped and emblazoned with Swastikas? How does this affect the operation of the refinery? How does that painting affect the function of the building?

I've been to the stadium and never even noticed the mural. Is it in the office area? Is it visible to the public?

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Unless they thought the GA was lying, they knew what he did to that child. That's all the more I'm gonna say about this. As far as the muriel, I'm not exactly sure where it is on campus, but ESPN made it sound like it was part of the sports/stadium complex. Sorry, don't mean to come off bad and I'm not directing any of this at you. It's just they knew what he did to that child.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

I don't disagree with you, but I know for a fact, from my friends working in the administration of another world class university that there are strict HR policies and procedures that must be followed when dealing with illegal activity that occurs on university property. I don't know what PSU's procedures are but if during that time Joe consulted with the University counsel (lawyer) and was told to follow the letter of the rules and never say anything else, he's doing as he should.

This is indeed how it goes where I work. Whenever we think we are venturing into a potential legal area we are to immediately involve company counsel and discuss everything with them and do whatever they recommend. No more, no less. JoePa, ultimately, as an employee of the university under contract and under their rules would have had to follow them. Lest he be fired for cause.

And JoePa doesn't really say "screw you, im coaching until I want" they just give Joe incredibly long amounts of time to make his decision and keep him around even when the contract expires. They also keep him involved in the search for his replacement.

Sandusky was going to replace JoePa until Joe put the kibosh on it. This is what directly lead to Sandusky's retirement in 1999

If Joe was told he had to abide by a gag order of sorts, then fine. I'd actually feel bad for him. But that's not what is being reported.

Of course the story is still coming out. Maybe (I really really really hope) we'll get some info explaining in a better light for Joe. (I really really really hope)

We'll have to wait and see. From we have now, it looks bad for Joe. (reputation wise)

But how bout the rest of that time-line? OMFG............ nobody beat that ****ers ass by now? How the hell do you get caught by 4 or 5 poeple and still be on campus and school grounds doing this?

Janitors thought they'd get fired?????

While I'll put my judgement of Joe Paterno on hold..... the University is PATHETIC here. OMFG.......... How the hell do you KNOW about this guy and let him still come around? How do you act so slowly? I'd OWN that Fing University if it were my son.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Unless they thought the GA was lying, they knew what he did to that child. That's all the more I'm gonna say about this. As far as the muriel, I'm not exactly sure where it is on campus, but ESPN made it sound like it was part of the sports/stadium complex. Sorry, don't mean to come off bad and I'm not directing any of this at you. It's just they knew what he did to that child.

Again, most companies approach this stuff as a lawyer would. They do not want to be sued for libel/slander. They will take any and all evidence into account. And 30 years is a lot of perceived good will to overcome. They did not know with 100% certainty what occurred in that locker room shower and took all the appropriate measures in my opinion. If they had gotten the child or the parent of the child to provide a sworn affidavit or testify before them then I could see the response that you describe happening. As they didn't they did was completely appropriate.

[PQ]

For the record, NOBODY is talking like that time-line is acurate or true.

Purgury and failing to report the multiple molestations are there.

[PQ]

We'll have to wait, but it's pretty ugly.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by PQ

If Joe was told he had to abide by a gag order of sorts, then fine. I'd actually feel bad for him. But that's not what is being reported.

Of course the story is still coming out. Maybe (I really really really hope) we'll get some info explaining in a better light for Joe. (I really really really hope)

We'll have to wait and see. From we have now, it looks bad for Joe. (reputation wise)

But how bout the rest of that time-line? OMFG............ nobody beat that ****ers ass by now? How the hell do you get caught by 4 or 5 poeple and still be on campus and school grounds doing this?

Janitors thought they'd get fired?????

While I'll put my judgement of Joe Paterno on hold..... the University is PATHETIC here. OMFG.......... How the hell do you KNOW about this guy and let him still come around? How do you act so slowly? I'd OWN that Fing University if it were my son.

I cannot excuse the university administration or the janitors, local police, university police or the District Attorney. They all had ample time and cause to nip this in the bud long before 2002.

I still think JoePa did nothing wrong. Also, I do not know if he went to legal counsel or not or if he was following procedure of Penn State or not, I was simply stating how it is at another university and a company in the private sector. If I stumbled upon something like this at work, I'd be required to contact company legal counsel first who would then direct me how to involve the local authorities.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by PQ

For the record, NOBODY is talking like that time-line is acurate or true.

Purgury and failing to report the multiple molestations are there.

My understanding is that time line was constructed from the Grand Jury evidence and fact sheet.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

Again, most companies approach this stuff as a lawyer would. They do not want to be sued for libel/slander. They will take any and all evidence into account. And 30 years is a lot of perceived good will to overcome. They did not know with 100% certainty what occurred in that locker room shower and took all the appropriate measures in my opinion. If they had gotten the child or the parent of the child to provide a sworn affidavit or testify before them then I could see the response that you describe happening. As they didn't they did was completely appropriate.

Legally they acted appropriately? How about morally? Again, they knew what he did to that child. I just can't get past that. Anyways, good debate, I'm sure many answers will come over the next weeks and months.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Legally they acted appropriately. How about morally? Again, they knew what he did to that child. I just can't get past that. Anyways, good debate, I'm sure many answers will come over the next weeks and months.

Morality and Legality go hand in hand. Unfortunately in this litigious society that we now live in, it could have gone very bad for PSU (monetarily I mean) had they acted hastily and handed Sandusky over or made the accusations public.

Nowadays morality takes a back seat to legality. I'm sorry but if I'm told by a superior to STFU and GBTW and that they will take care of it, I'm going to do just that. This then covers me and my company legally. Morally, I'll hate myself but unless I can assure that I can get this to the police under complete anonymity, I'm going to stop. It's then the responsibility of the lawyer (as they know of an on-going crime) to notify the authorities.

The only way they could have gone further is if they had actively encouraged the GA to go to the police as he was the only eye witness that they knew of at the time (I don't know if they knew what the Janitors had seen).

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

The only way they could have gone further is if they had actively encouraged the GA to go to the police as he was the only eye witness that they knew of at the time ).

This is exactly what they should have done. Called the Police and said "Son, tell them what you saw." The road would have been bumpy, but nothing like it is now. This is gonna cost them $millions in lawsuits and a reputation that will take a long time to get back.