[Teleplayer]

Ok I am sure this one got your attention. Congress has considered a few bills in the past that have been called "cash for clunkers", where you give up your old car and get a voucher for $$ towards a new one. Well those various bills never did make it through.

A fairly new bill has been introduced which could benefit Camaro lovers. The bill is called the CARS bill, known as H.R. 1550. You can read the text of the bill here:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1550/text

Be careful when searching the internet for this, many articles will say that cash for clunkers was defeated, etc. This is in reference to other, older bills

Now there is no guarantee this bill will ever make it, and it will probably get changed no matter what happens. But briefly, this is what it would provide:

A voucher for your old vehicle that is 8 years old or older. (and yes, it may be possible to buy a clunker, register it for a while and then get a voucher) The amount of the voucher is 4-5k depending on where the new car is manufactured. Your old vehicle would be scrapped. The idea is to get low-mileage high polluting cars off the road, and help automakers. For details, see the text of the bill.

So - how will this help us ?? Well currently the bill will give a voucher for North American built (read Camaro - Canada) cars if they get 30 MPG hwy or better. Ouch !!! the V6 Camaro gets 29 MPG. The requirements for US built cars is 27 MPG.

What to do? I suggest that everyone on this board should write or call their US representative and tell them that they support this bill, but that it should be modified to include the Canadian built Camaro (and others) that are at 29 MPG. It's not much of a stretch that they would modify the bill in this way, for a 1 MPG shift. You can also tell them how the 3.6L V6 is award winning and a marvel of US engineering, etc. Tell them how it will help GM and the US. Let's get a little stimulus money for the Camaro !!!! Can you imagine, getting a government perk to buy a 300 HP Camaro !!!

According to my research, the bill has been sent to two committees to work on it - transportation and infrastructure, and energy and commerce. You can also write to those committees and tell them what you think. (and you should) You can easily find links to those committees with a google search. The official sites end with .gov. I don't suggest emailing them. Either call them and express your opinion, or write a snail mail letter.

[LS 1st gen]

One of the reasons this bill has not passed is because the SEMA legislative action group is vehemently opposed to it.

Car enthusiasts are very concerned with the loss of potential classic cars under program like this.

see below:

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62519

[PQ]

We have discussed this here before. Won't find many supporters here. Some ya but this bill and any like it is in my opinion not conducive to the promotion of business whatsoever. But quite the contrary. Sure there may still be enough cars to maintain alot of business but the whole purpose of the idea is not good for it. More would be lost than gained.

[Mr_Draco]

Several states have tried bills like this and all have failed with them in the hole. There simply is not enough people who will use it and they can't gain back the $4-$5k they owe the dealerships.

[Teleplayer]

I'm surprised to hear the sentiment on this. To me it makes a lot of sense. Instead of giving billions to GM, they give it to us to buy new cars. How can that be not conducive to business? I don't understand the comment about gaining back $ they owe the dealerships. I have read that this has been done in Europe successfully.

And I don't buy the notion that everyone is going to trade in their 69 camaros and 65 mustangs to get the $5k. And even if they do, so what? People are throwing away all sorts of "vintage" items every day. It will make the ones that survive all that more valuable.

I have the feeling you would see mostly '93 luminas and other such crapcans being scrapped.

What am I missing here?

[Ohio5thgen]

When the government has a voluntary old car turn in program it soon becomes a mandatory turn in program. It is not governments place to stick their nose in business and they do that too much as it is. You want 4-5K go sell your car and quit expecting the government to provide it for you.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Teleplayer

I'm surprised to hear the sentiment on this. To me it makes a lot of sense. Instead of giving billions to GM, they give it to us to buy new cars. How can that be not conducive to business? I don't understand the comment about gaining back $ they owe the dealerships. I have read that this has been done in Europe successfully.

And I don't buy the notion that everyone is going to trade in their 69 camaros and 65 mustangs to get the $5k. And even if they do, so what? People are throwing away all sorts of "vintage" items every day. It will make the ones that survive all that more valuable.

I have the feeling you would see mostly '93 luminas and other such crapcans being scrapped.

What am I missing here?

They don't give you the money. They give you a voucher to give the dealer which then turns it in with mountains of paperwork to get the money back. Such process takes months and costs the dealer thousands depending on how many they sell with this program with the labor charges and lost of interest from not having the money, we are talking about the federal government here and they take FOREVER. This turns into the case of "I have this voucher but no dealer will take it" for the buyer as like all discount programs, it is 100% completely up to the business to decide to accept them.

People won't turn in cars of value. Other people will do it for them (aka steal).

[Teleplayer]

Wow, an amazing amount of negative sentiment here. I never knew Camaro lovers were so angry. Maybe it's because I am new to the board and this is part of the hazing process. First of all, the assumption is my car isn't worth 4-5k, otherwise why on earth would I be considering a voucher?

Does someone have actual proof that a voluntary car turn-in program has become mandatory somewhere?

I found this information about a similar German program. I admit, we don't live in Germany and things are different there:

"But the model everyone is looking at is Germany, which juiced car sales last month by more than 20%. Proponents of the cash-for-clunkers program say Germany’s plan, which offers rebates slightly smaller than in the proposed U.S. version, shows how the government can accelerate the modernization of the auto fleet—and make it cleaner at the same time."

But Mr Draco, where are you getting your information about how the government will take forever with payment, ect, since the government has never done this before? Sounds like conjecture.

You are saying someone is going to steal a car, then somehow register it for 4 months and then get a voucher for it? Seriously?

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by Teleplayer

Wow, an amazing amount of negative sentiment here. I never knew Camaro lovers were so angry. Maybe it's because I am new to the board and this is part of the hazing process. First of all, the assumption is my car isn't worth 4-5k, otherwise why on earth would I be considering a voucher?

Does someone have actual proof that a voluntary car turn-in program has become mandatory somewhere?

I found this information about a similar German program. I admit, we don't live in Germany and things are different there:

"But the model everyone is looking at is Germany, which juiced car sales last month by more than 20%. Proponents of the cash-for-clunkers program say Germany’s plan, which offers rebates slightly smaller than in the proposed U.S. version, shows how the government can accelerate the modernization of the auto fleet—and make it cleaner at the same time."

But Mr Draco, where are you getting your information about how the government will take forever with payment, ect, since the government has never done this before? Sounds like conjecture.

You are saying someone is going to steal a car, then somehow register it for 4 months and then get a voucher for it? Seriously?

All you have to do is look to see how slow the government is at everything else it does.

[Teleplayer]

They were not very slow when they handed GM a few billion $$'s !!!

Sorry, I was hoping there would be more support for a possible way to save money on the car. After all of our taxpayer money that has gone into GM and Chrysler, wouldn't it be nice to get some of it back?

I'm still in favor of this bill and I really don't think we will lose any classic cars in the process.

[speedster]

Teleplayer -

Here is part of the problem with the German model you are referring to:

Quote referencing the German 60 Minutes (Monitor):

"The Abwrackprämie (”wrecking award”) a.k.a Cash for Clunkers is only a week old. There’s already a huge black market for bogus car culling. Monitor, the German version of “60 Minutes,” ran a segment where a TV team succeeded in selling a supposedly shredded car to Poland. Then they sold it to a Lebanese trader who exported it to Africa. As a final accomplishment, they registered the supposedly culled car again . . . in Berlin, right around the corner from where the law was passed. Nobody was checking in a country that usually checks everything.

The program cited Jürgen Resch, head of the environmental organization Deutsche Umwelthilfe, who said: “We assume that hundreds of thousands of cars and hundreds of millions of Euros will end up in the hands of organized crime.” from the same article "the subsidy is, in fact, a bail-out initiative for organized crime." "

It sounds good in theory, but is already being abused in practice.

[TFord]

Originally Posted by Super83Z

All you have to do is look to see how slow the government is at everything else it does.

hell theres a 22 month lapse before I can even start getting my G.I. bill. Personally I say keep your junkers and fix em. Our cars aren't the "big problem" when it comes to the "global warming epidemic". Cars are just the tool politicians use to seem green. If there were no cars in america (in 2006)that would only cut our carbon footprint by 20% on a world wide scale, and reduced CO2 in America by 30% The other 70% comes from one source, yet I hear nothing about it. So Im totally against this proposal.

[Teleplayer]

To be honest, I don't care if my car gets shipped to Somalia and then re-sold to someone in Russia, or if this plan has any impact on global warming or not. I just want my 5K voucher before Obama drains the bank account!

[Ohio5thgen]

Originally Posted by Teleplayer

To be honest, I don't care if my car gets shipped to Somalia and then re-sold to someone in Russia, or if this plan has any impact on global warming or not. I just want my 5K voucher before Obama drains the bank account!

So crime is ok with you as long as you get yours. That is the problem with this country these days. Grease my palm and I will look the other way instead of demanding justice. Without justice we a sinking.