[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

--- As a technical person.. The vast majority of the Tin Foiler commenters would probably be very surprised on the stuff I could recover/track on them with access to things like their car's computer, their home computer, their mobile devices, etc.. for "tracking" purposes only, of course...

Mine's been cancelled, but I called them up to validate... The lady on the other phone assured me it's fully deactivated and that they don't track their customers. She seemed a little irritated when I go to her.. Maybe others calling up and giving them a hard time..

Can someone confirm that people that have previously turned off their service aren't included in this? She said it doesn't go in to effect until December.

People who previously or in the future cancel the service will still be tracked.
So if you already canceled and they aren't tracking you now. When it starts in Dec they will activate it again and begin tracking you.

I agree with what you are saying also. The average person has no idea just how easy it is for someone to wreak havoc in your life with just the smallest amount of information. this is one information leak I can and will easily plug.

[cmore]

Originally Posted by Cbrenthus

And I'm going to post this here, as I did in the other threads:

I love how everybody always defends Onstar on here and think that those that have a problem with it are tin foil hat nutjobs. I don't want to hear any of you complain when your warranty is denied because Onstar noticed you accidentally overreved your engine, or you insurance goes up because you drove 1000 miles more than you said you would, or you have to pay a road tax because you drove x amount of miles on your local roads, etc.

The problem you all don't understand is that its a slippery slope, and the further the sled goes down the slope, the more momentum it builds up and the more difficult to stop. Sure, maybe right now they aren't going to give your information to the cops for an automatic speeding ticket because they know your car did 90 in a 65, however, give it a few years as they keep sharing more and more info. They'll keep sending out new privacy notices as you get used to it little by little, by the time you wake up, its too late.

[Bobtorious]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Joint Marketing Initiative...Doesn't seem nearly that loosely interpreted to me, I'm sorry!

Who does OnStar work with? GM. What to GM and OnStar do? Advertise the system on their cars. And they'd better step it up a notch now that they're not the only game in town (aka Ford Sync, and "hyundai connect" or whatever it's called)....

EDIT: "Marketing" is advertising.

It's not just for marketing purposes though Dragoneye. Again, per their updated terms and conditions: "for any purpose, at any time, provided that following collection of such location and speed information identifiable to your Vehicle, it is shared only on an anonymized basis"

Any purpose, any time..... for me, that's a bit scary. And for those who say, "who cares, it's anonymized", I'll repeat what I said earlier, it's not hard to write a piece of software to data mine gps information to start inferring conclusions.

[bandier]

Originally Posted by Bobtorious

Off the mark, but again, I'm considered silly for believing that you actually still have a right to privacy. But that's a topic that could derail this thread completely, so I'll leave it be.

Signed - a customer who cancelled OnStar today.

P.S. More than likely, you probably partake in illegal activity everyday... ever drive more than 1 mph over the speed limit?

Aw man... it was a joke. And, yes you are correct. I do drive over the speed limit every day, that kind of goes hand in hand with having a Camaro, does it not???

[Don57]

Originally Posted by ajax.

Are they still tracking anything even if you let the subscription expire?

Yes. This is explicitly described in the changes to their privacy policy. You will still have your privacy violated for profit even if you don't have an active Onstar subscription.

[Don57]

Originally Posted by gahammerle

I wonder if they make body wraps for Camaros in tin foil?

They do:

[Hylton]

Well I guess these new developments will have the Chinese govt. thinking that America is finally coming around....

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Cbrenthus

I posted this in another thread, but its relevant here too:

I love how everybody always defends Onstar on here and think that those that have a problem with it are tin foil hat nutjobs. I don't want to hear any of you complain when your warranty is denied because Onstar noticed you accidentally overreved your engine, or you insurance goes up because you drove 1000 miles more than you said you would, or you have to pay a road tax because you drove x amount of miles on your local roads, etc.

The problem you all don't understand is that its a slippery slope, and the further the sled goes down the slope, the more momentum it builds up and the more difficult to stop. Sure, maybe right now they aren't going to give your information to the cops for an automatic speeding ticket because they know your car did 90 in a 65, however, give it a few years as they keep sharing more and more info. They'll keep sending out new privacy notices as you get used to it little by little, by the time you wake up, its too late.

And I've posted in the other threads including ones in the past (and the people who SWEAR their buddy got a call from OnStar in his Corvette because he was going "too fast", meanwhile nobody can produce any proof this ever happened) thats NOT going to happen. I'd love to sit here and repeat myself but its getting like a broken record.

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Maybe because some of us have a better understanding of the technology than older people.... More times than not "tracking" data like this is used for purposes other than intended or publicized. If they track while I subscribe to the service, then fine. They have 0 right to it after I cancel. There are simply too many reasons to even go in to on why this is not a good idea and practices like it should be stopped.

Or maybe you and others have watched too many movies. I've seen them all too. Just because they SEEM possible doesn't mean they are possible.

Its the mentality of everyone is out to get you. Its perpetuated by over protective parents, politicians on all sides, religions, etc. In some cases it is warranted, but seriously living like that is going to give todays young people an ulcer or heart attack by their 40's.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Or maybe you and others have watched too many movies. I've seen them all too. Just because they SEEM possible doesn't mean they are possible.

Its the mentality of everyone is out to get you. Its perpetuated by over protective parents, politicians on all sides, religions, etc. In some cases it is warranted, but seriously living like that is going to give todays young people an ulcer or heart attack by their 40's.

Ignorant.. Seriously, ignorant..

I'm not in the mentality of everyone is out to get me.. There are some that are out to get most and if you don't get that, then enjoy your ignorance of life... I'm simply not going to argue you on that one because it's simply not open for debate. There are countless references on the interwebs (which is this cool techy thingy you're using now) of how "simply for tracking" turned in to much more.... It's not just with cars. It's with Web Browsers, Cells, TVs, DVRs, Tablets, Laptops, Home Computers, etc... I personally have recovered and accessed all manner of information about people (by their request) that they didn't even know was floating around.. I've pulled data off of people's personal devices they didn't even know was being collected... So, don't sit there and give me that stupid line about movies... Just because you don't know how or haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not possible.. I pull stuff out of digital oblivion that others in my field swore was unrecoverable... I've also gained access to systems that people promised me were locked down.. I've also been able to piece together information that was "anonymized" and tell them which usernames belonged with which data sets.. It's honestly not that hard.

I don't get ulcers from it.. I'm am simply aware of what goes on, how and why.. My parents weren't over protective. I'm an atheist and I have 0 interest in politics for that matter.

Hell, I had a bet with my current GF I could dig up stuff on her from her old busted out PC... She was in shock when I not only recovered the drive, but was able to reassemble chunks of data that were missing, broken open cache files, looked through cookie information, etc.. and pulled up Instant Message logs from 7 years ago to her ex-boyfriend at the time complete with all files they'd been sending around to each other.. -- yes, that's different than OnStar tracking the system, but my point is.. Things that happen in movies can and do occur in real life.. Some times movies are the basis for creating it, some times real life inspires the movie.. Maybe you should look in to how sites can remotely access personal state data on your computer and actually pull up what other sites you've been to before that one?

Also, I'm not even in that field of technology.. I just dabble in it.. So, you can imagine what someone with formal training and constant exposure is capable of...

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Well I guess these new developments will have the Chinese govt. thinking that America is finally coming around....

No shit. That's a perfect example for people who think it can't happen.
People don't have their rights taken away over night. They do it little by little and it gets to the point that the current reality is all you know and people don't complain or do anything to change it cuz anyone who remembered what it was like to be free is long dead. The current state of America is a bunch of spineless pussies. We don't fight for anything anymore. Unless someone is in your home with a gun down your mouth no one cares about anything. And the government and big corporations are and will take advantage of this.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by liquidsmoke

People who previously or in the future cancel the service will still be tracked.
So if you already canceled and they aren't tracking you now. When it starts in Dec they will activate it again and begin tracking you.

I agree with what you are saying also. The average person has no idea just how easy it is for someone to wreak havoc in your life with just the smallest amount of information. this is one information leak I can and will easily plug.

I outright asked the lady on the phone that part about "what if I previously canceled" -- she swore that wasn't the case and that it would only happen to those that canceled from 12/11 and forward... I guess when that time comes, I'll be giving ol BigBrother a call again..

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I outright asked the lady on the phone that part about "what if I previously canceled" -- she swore that wasn't the case and that it would only happen to those that canceled from 12/11 and forward... I guess when that time comes, I'll be giving ol BigBrother a call again..

I don't think I remember reading anywhere about it only being for current subscribers that cancel after it starts. I guess if you are a current subscriber you agree to these draconian TOS. But more details need to be made about this part. I wouldn't trust the person who answers the blue button to know anything we don't.

I don't see how they are not going to be sued behind this. They can update their TOS all they want. I'm not their customer so I don't agree with your terms and their is nothing legally binding me to do so, and they don't have the right to track me without my concent, so we'll see how this plays out.

I'm almost to the point of never buying another GM car ever.

[GEN-IV]

I will be removing 3 OnStapo modules this weekend. First they cave on the new UAW contract, and now this, I am quickly losing faith in my favorite car company.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Ignorant.. Seriously, ignorant..

.............

Also, I'm not even in that field of technology.. I just dabble in it.. So, you can imagine what someone with formal training and constant exposure is capable of...

You sir have no clue. First off you misread what I wrote. I'm fully aware that any and all of that is possible, however its the mentality that people ARE DOING THAT to you, specifically a company that yes I'm sure you may not trust corporate america, has a lot to lose should they get caught doing something nefarious. Not only that, you can EASILY stop them from doing it. Its so publicized you'd have to be an idiot not to know.

You took it upon yourself to attempt to educate me on how this stuff works. Since you felt that need to write a 2 paragraph Internet muscle flex I'll retort with the fact that you need to pay a little more attention. I have an advanced degree in Computer Science, and I've been in the workforce in one form or another for over 15 years (besides messing with computers since I was about 8 yrs old). I've worked everywhere from insurance to consumer goods. I've worked directly with companies like Choicepoint who could tell you things about yourself that you don't even know and they don't need an antenna on the roof of your Camaro to tell you. Currently I manage a computer system that runs a multi billion dollar operation in North and South America (and no I am not naming it here, heck you could probably figure it out pretty quickly if you can do all that stuff you just spewed).

So trust me when I tell you, I know exactly what you and I can find out about people, how unsafe data is and what can be done. I also have an insight into the corporate world behind who collects this data and what they do with it. I worked previously for an insurance company who LOVES data they would get from OnStar. I'll tell you now those companies are run by people, just like you and me. They are your neighbors, your friends, your relatives. There is no overlord in there out to get you, there are no people in that company doing searches on specific people. When people post stuff like that I actually almost take offense to it because I know myself and the thousands of co-workers I had don't live to screw the working man over, and neither did our bosses. And I worked for a company that gets slaughtered on here many times.

They are using it for marketing studies, overall insurance ratings, and yes occasionally law enforcement looks at it too for their own purposes (traffic, accident rates etc), just like they said. Just because the government owns a stake (which they are trying as hard as they can to divest themselves of if you do any research), doesn't mean "the man" is out there working on you.