[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by liquidsmoke

And even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and say hypothetically Onstar will respect your privacy and not just sell the data to anyone who asks for it.
I still have a problem with them tracking people who don't pay for the service.
Even if in some alternate universe they have good intentions. It's still a bad idea to have all that data stolen from unsuspecting people sitting somewhere just waiting for someone to hack there severs or some employee stealing the data and doing whatever with it. And that is the more likely situation of how publicly the data will end up in bad hands.
Behind closed doors, who knows what they are doing with it.
People break the rules. How do you think bad things happen.

All you need to do is call and request they stop. Then it's like you unsubscribed before this amendment.

They need to devote resources (aka $$ & manpower) to collect information. I would be willing to guarantee whatever they're tracking after you unsubscribe is ridiculously insignificant. But I don't know that for sure.

There is a level of trust you must be willing to have with the groups that have your information. Like it or not, life isn't getting any more private. And if you're worried about OnStar keeping track of your miles or maintenance records...there's a whole lot more intimate information out there that companies have access to you might want to sprout a few gray hairs over...

[liquidsmoke]

And what exactly is a joint marketing initiative anyway. That can mean anything depending on how you interpret it. And since this is a legal doc were talking about, if it came down to it they would interpret it anyway that benefits them.

Most people look at it as, oh they are gonna try to sell me something based on my habits. But that's not what it says at all.

Joint. Two or more entities coming together
Marketing. To push or sell your wares
Initiative. Just another word for action.

Who's the customer?

In the most basic terms it's just two companies getting together to sell something to some one else.

And let's not forget who we are talking about. A company. Who's primary directive is to make money. No company does anything that will not directly or indirectly make them more money. So I really don't see how you can say they are not selling the data.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Joint Marketing Initiative...Doesn't seem nearly that loosely interpreted to me, I'm sorry!

Who does OnStar work with? GM. What to GM and OnStar do? Advertise the system on their cars. And they'd better step it up a notch now that they're not the only game in town (aka Ford Sync, and "hyundai connect" or whatever it's called)....

EDIT: "Marketing" is advertising.

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

All you need to do is call and request they stop. Then it's like you unsubscribed before this amendment.

They need to devote resources (aka $$ & manpower) to collect information. I would be willing to guarantee whatever they're tracking after you unsubscribe is ridiculously insignificant. But I don't know that for sure.

There is a level of trust you must be willing to have with the groups that have your information. Like it or not, life isn't getting any more private. And if you're worried about OnStar keeping track of your miles or maintenance records...there's a whole lot more intimate information out there that companies have access to you might want to sprout a few gray hairs over...

I don't trust the opt out. It's bs to be honest. How about an opt in? Cuz that would be the real honest way to do it. And how many people who opt out will come to find they were still collecting data, and GM will say it was a technical error.

They don't have to devote anymore resources to tracking your car than they would if you were a paying customer. It's not like there is a human somewhere looking at where you are at and writing it down. It's all done automatic and takes nothing more than sever space to store the data. And since they are selling this data any money they spend on tracking you is just a business investment.

You are absolutely correct in your last paragraph. There is a certain level of trust you need to have with your personal private information and how it's used and by who it's being used.
GM, CHEVY AND ONSTAR does not have that trust from me.
How could you trust a car company who would just as easily screw you over a warranty claim. And I'm talking about any car company, not just GM. And GM isn't any better than any other company in that respect.

I don't really trust any company and just hope they do the right thing or that they have proper security to protect me and my wellbeing.
You can't remove all your personal information from being available to someone somewhere with bad intentions. But you can actively limit or try to reduce how much information about you that's out there being passed around like a cheap hooker. And that's exactly why I take offense to there new terms because on the most basic level, I don't trust GM. So I will be looking to remove or disable onstar as I don't like the service anyway and didnt renew.

[kmcd]

This thread still going?

If anyone's interested, there's an "AREA 51" marathon airing on the Discovery Paranoia Channel.

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Joint Marketing Initiative...Doesn't seem nearly that loosely interpreted to me, I'm sorry!

Who does OnStar work with? GM. What to GM and OnStar do? Advertise the system on their cars. And they'd better step it up a notch now that they're not the only game in town (aka Ford Sync, and "hyundai connect" or whatever it's called)....

EDIT: "Marketing" is advertising.

GM owns onstar. When they say joint marketing they are not talking about each other. That would be like chevy saying they have a partnership with GM.
It's not a parntnership when someone owns you. They are talking about other companies, who you likely never heard of.

Not sure how my definition is loose. Those are the definitions of those words.

Does joint not mean one or more things coming together.
Does marketing not mean to let someone know you have something for sell.
Does initiative not mean to take action.

When you use this three words, that's what it means. Unless you go by some other dictionary.

But the meaning of those words and that statement isn't that important. It's what they don't say in that statement that's important. And that is, who exactly is the customer in this joint marketing initiative? Im pretty certain it is not you or me.

[jmart53]

OnStar Is Tracking Your Speed And Location Even When You Cancel Your Service

OnStar is alerting customers of a change in its privacy policy that'll let the company collect the speed and location of any OnStar-equipped vehicle, even when the owner no longer subscribes to the monthly service.

According to spokesman Adam Denison, the company will keep this tracking active for the convenience of customers who wish to restore service. He also says the connection will remain open "unless the customer says otherwise".

Even more troubling is a little known section of the privacy policy that lets OnStar compile this GPS data and sell an anonymized version to government agencies, marketing companies and vehicle manufacturers.
--------------------

I don't like that idea....

[Orange5thGen]

Big brother...LOL also they sent me a notice to let my insurance company have the data once a month so they could lower my rates and save me money, LOL NOT. I said no to that too......

[plastrd]

I don't consider myself much a part of the tinfoil hat club, but this is giving me more motivation to rip out that OnStar module and put in a BlueStar. If only they'd hurry up with the A2DP streaming feature that would seal the deal.

A couple related articles:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/onstar_ecall/
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...ar-tracks-you/

[EFI]

What's stopping your, or anyone else from ripping out any on star tracking related equipment in the car? Is that illegal if you don't have the service anymore?

[slick rick]

Already being discussed here http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171384

If you don't like it then pull the Onstar fuse or if you're really paranoid, remove the Onstar module from behind the glove box.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51929

[jmart53]

Sorry didn't realize it was already being discussed... anyway, the only thing I am worried about is my insurance company requesting the tracking and speed data and then raising my rates or some BS because of it and I would never know...

[CamaroSkooter]

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by jmart53

Sorry didn't realize it was already being discussed... anyway, the only thing I am worried about is my insurance company requesting the tracking and speed data and then raising my rates or some BS because of it and I would never know...

If they (the insurance company) want your specific data... it would be easier for them to do it themselves. Offer you a discount if you install a monitoring device. (It's already being done that way)

It would be too difficult for Onstar to sell individual specific data to specific insurance companies. Not to mention, be counterproductive. They are looking at ways of adding revenue, not revamping the entire system so that your Insurance Company can track your every move. The information that is shared will most likely be very general. Insurance companies will use this data (along with all the other data they collect) to accurately rate customers in different areas.

Read the whole thread that slick rick linked. (Which I'm sure the mods will attached this thread to soon)