[My 5th]

Hmmm....private citizens are guilty of a crime if they video tape the Police doing ANYTHING in public view, but Onstar can monitor your car's activity...essentially without your permission? (at least for 60 days) Why is this not wiretapping? Virtually every business professional can go to prison if they disclose almost ANY information about their customers (HIPPA, Privacy Act, etc), but Onstar gets a free pass on this? I wonder if Onstar thinks they are operating under a Government Motors umbrella of protection, where bankruptcy laws can be broken at a whim, why not wiretapping and privacy laws too?

[The Blue Angel]

If someone DOESN'T like OnStar cancel!! No one is forcing you to have OnStar!! But I CHOOSE to have OnStar!! Simple as that!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by My 5th

Hmmm....private citizens are guilty of a crime if they video tape the Police doing ANYTHING in public view, but Onstar can monitor your car's activity...essentially without your permission? (at least for 60 days) Why is this not wiretapping? Virtually every business professional can go to prison if they disclose almost ANY information about their customers (HIPPA, Privacy Act, etc), but Onstar gets a free pass on this?

They're disclosing their privacy policy to customers - you can read exactly what they're doing. That's the law. They're legal. Wiretapping is secret. These are two completely different things you're attempting to connect, here....

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

At first - I was very nervous when I read the title and the first few posts...I even sent a message off that I now regret. After digging *just a little* deeper...

Here's how I read it...fwiw...translation in blue



Detailed below, we're letting you know that the two-way data connection with your car will be in operation, even if you unsubscribe to our services. But if you'd like us to not do that - please call and we'll honor your request. If you're wearing a tin-foil hat, and check the sky for surveillance satellites every night before bed; your dealer can even rip out the physical OnStar system to ensure your stress levels remain at a healthy level.

.........As we mentioned, we'll reserve the right to collect data from your car for the following purposes. We may collect call/report/usage data from you to improve our services. If asked we'll share information such as current location, etc to law enforcement...but we're not going to go out of our way to "tell on you". If you owe us money, we may share your information with the credit card companies, and perhaps use compiled data such as total miles traveled in your model of car or number of OnStar calls in a year with our marketing partners (like GM, duh!) to better spread the word about OnStar in this increasingly competitive Industry of In-Vehicle safety telematics.


I don't see a huge issue to be frank.

Yes, there are now clear and explicit additions to the ways they're going to use your driving data. And they've changed the UNSUBSCRIBE default to "on" for their data logging...basically adding an extra step to get them to go blind.

But you see that? One more step taken -- and they're still blind, just like before. No credit card processors...no joint marketing initiatives...and never, not even if they're still monitoring, insurance companies. I didn't see them mentioned...

What I read was a lot of explanation for a small change.


EDIT: For those still worried - I recommend you put the above amendment in context and read the whole privacy statement: http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/privacy

I agree with you 99.9%. See colorful text for comments...

I believe that Onstar is a huge money pit for GM. They need to turn this program around, at least on the books. GM will never dump it... they jumped in with both feet (and actually thought it was the future).

So... making the default to [on] and selling that information to insurance companies (some already offer discounts if you let them monitor your driving) could very well turn that program into a profit maker, instead of a sink hole. Regarding the statement, they would be stupid to mention "insurance companies" directly... it is brutal enough to read, and they used language that incorporates them.

Here's where I'll suprise you... I think GM has every right, as do the insurance companies. The disclosure today was a bit jaw dropping, but after thoroughly thought thru... GM has to turn this program around and insurance companies are going to do what they have to, to rate their customers accurately.

I have my dislikes for the whole situation... one of those being that this may end up biting them in the end. This does turn some people off, and it may just cost them sales (& there are a lot of other options on the market). For example, it might not be something a Lindsey Lohan looks for in a car/ankle braclet.

The only other dislike is... if I did want to turn it off or "make them blind", I have to have the system physically removed from my car, at my inconvenience. If the glass people (safelight repair / safelight replace) can come to your car to fix your windshield, GM can sure as well come take their monitoring stuff outta my car.

Either way... phew glad that is over!

[Cam2011]

I guess I'ma bit confused, unless you are up to no good what is there to worry about? Also how does Onstar's using my driving habit info pertain to them sharing info with credit cards? Unless they are planning on offering an Onstar Visa?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

The only other dislike is... if I did want to turn it off or "make them blind", I have to have the system physically removed from my car, at my inconvenience. If the glass people (safelight repair / safelight replace) can come to your car to fix your windshield, GM can sure as well come take their monitoring stuff outta my car.

All you need to do is call them and request the two-way link be disconnected. Then the system will revert to the "old unsubscribed" behavior. Yes...it becomes a trust issue...but as I mentioned earlier, they have so much to loose by cheating a former customer, I really honestly don't think they would...even if they had the evil goal to devote the resources to do it.

With regards to your idea on using the insurance companies as a source of revenue....maybe.

What language do you read that incorporates them? I may have missed it...

Originally Posted by Cam2011

I guess I'ma bit confused, unless you are up to no good what is there to worry about? Also how does Onstar's using my driving habit info pertain to them sharing info with credit cards? Unless they are planning on offering an Onstar Visa?

Part of the information they collect about you is your billing address, and purchase information of your car. They know it, so they must disclose it in their privacy policy.

I don't know for sure....but I'd imagine if you're negligent in service payments they will probably share this information with whatever debt-collection subsidiaries the Credit Card companies have...

[Cam2011]

Am I the only one who likes Onstar? I find them pretty helpful.

[1BADLS3]

Unless you're fearful of an actual government lock down of our country where armed guards shackle and chain you and make you become slaves to them, and to get to that point, they used OnStar to control not only your vehicle, but your mind as well.... ...who gives a F what OnStar is learning about you as you drive your vehicle?

God forbid someone publishes a compelling study based on OnStar data that says there's too much traffic and speed limits are artificially, unnecessarily low?

Trust me when I say they don't give a shit about how you drive. It's not like a cop shows up at my door when I break the speed limit with nobody watching. If that were true, I'd have had my car seized and I'd be in jail by now.

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

All you need to do is call them and request the two-way link be disconnected. Then the system will revert to the "old unsubscribed" behavior. Yes...it becomes a trust issue...but as I mentioned earlier, they have so much to loose by cheating a former customer, I really honestly don't think they would...even if they had the evil goal to devote the resources to do it.

With regards to your idea on using the insurance companies as a source of revenue....maybe.

What language do you read that incorporates them? I may have missed it...





Part of the information they collect about you is your billing address, and purchase information of your car. They know it, so they must disclose it in their privacy policy.

I don't know for sure....but I'd imagine if you're negligent in service payments they will probably share this information with whatever debt-collection subsidiaries the Credit Card companies have...

"we may use the information we collect about you and your Vehicle to improve the quality of our Service and offerings and may share the information we collect with law enforcement or other public safety officials, credit card processors, and/or third parties we contract with who conduct joint marketing initiatives with OnStar"

That part certainly can include insurance companies.



Edit: A quick search and I found this from Oct 2010...http://demo.wardsauto.com/ward039s-auto-world/onstar-studying-marketing-opportunities-data-collection

"OnStar has been approached by companies, including insurance firms, seeking to make use of the data the company has accumulated in its 14 years of operation."

- OnStar Inc. President Chris Preuss



Hey, at least now they can use the slogan...


'It's not called [ON]Star for nothin'!'



Edit: Disclosure, I have OnStar's 'safe and sound', and plan on keeping it... I'll 'live' with it.

[SamHouseIII]

Big Brother is watching!!

[doubletap407]

Give me a break ! They tell you how to end it if you dont want it! It's not like they are the KGB or FBI! It's just a service provider telling you how to end their service if you dont want it !

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

At first - I was very nervous when I read the title and the first few posts...I even sent a message off that I now regret. After digging *just a little* deeper...

Here's how I read it...fwiw...translation in blue



Detailed below, we're letting you know that the two-way data connection with your car will be in operation, even if you unsubscribe to our services. But if you'd like us to not do that - please call and we'll honor your request. If you're wearing a tin-foil hat, and check the sky for surveillance satellites every night before bed; your dealer can even rip out the physical OnStar system to ensure your stress levels remain at a healthy level.

.........As we mentioned, we'll reserve the right to collect data from your car for the following purposes. We may collect call/report/usage data from you to improve our services. If asked we'll share information such as current location, etc to law enforcement...but we're not going to go out of our way to "tell on you". If you owe us money, we may share your information with the credit card companies, and perhaps use compiled data such as total miles traveled in your model of car or number of OnStar calls in a year with our marketing partners (like GM, duh!) to better spread the word about OnStar in this increasingly competitive Industry of In-Vehicle safety telematics.


I don't see a huge issue to be frank.

Yes, there are now clear and explicit additions to the ways they're going to use your driving data. And they've changed the UNSUBSCRIBE default to "on" for their data logging...basically adding an extra step to get them to go blind.

But you see that? One more step taken -- and they're still blind, just like before. No credit card processors...no joint marketing initiatives...and never, not even if they're still monitoring, insurance companies. I didn't see them mentioned...

What I read was a lot of explanation for a small change.


EDIT: For those still worried - I recommend you put the above amendment in context and read the whole privacy statement: http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/privacy

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

THANK YOU

too bad this post will get lost in a sea of "onstar touched me in my naughty place"

Not if we keep quoting it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

"we may use the information we collect about you and your Vehicle to improve the quality of our Service and offerings and may share the information we collect with law enforcement or other public safety officials, credit card processors, and/or third parties we contract with who conduct joint marketing initiatives with OnStar"

That part certainly can include insurance companies.



Edit: A quick search and I found this from Oct 2010...http://demo.wardsauto.com/ward039s-auto-world/onstar-studying-marketing-opportunities-data-collection

"OnStar has been approached by companies, including insurance firms, seeking to make use of the data the company has accumulated in its 14 years of operation."

- OnStar Inc. President Chris Preuss



Hey, at least now they can use the slogan...


'It's not called [ON]Star for nothin'!'



Edit: Disclosure, I have OnStar's 'safe and sound', and plan on keeping it... I'll 'live' with it.

I stand completely corrected!! I don't think the share+care relationship is quite there, yet however...wouldn't you agree? "Being approached" versus "we're sharing with...".

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Not if we keep quoting it.

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I stand completely corrected!! I don't think the share+care relationship is quite there, yet however...wouldn't you agree? "Being approached" versus "we're sharing with...".

First line of the article reads...

"OnStar Inc. President Chris Preuss is directing a group to study business opportunities from which his company might reap additional revenues..."

Later in the article they specifically mention insurance companies, my earlier quote. I would guess insurance companies would definately be the biggest additional revenue they could get. (they even approached Onstar, they want it so bad)

I think the difference in the wording between the disclosure and the article is semantics. They did the studies, saw opportunities, and now are executing them.