[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

I won't jump on the lets torch Toyota when they are all in the same camp.

And this is what burns many peoples asses. Toyota perpetuates this myth that they are so sound in quality when it's a bunch of BS. As you said it they are all in the same camp.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

google GM/Chevy & defective intermediate shaft and see the results. GM has been doing the same thing for years up to today. My 2005 Monte Carlo had it, my brothers 2009 Impala has it...GM reluctantly started fixing them, but the customer has to raise holy hell. Most manufacturers propbably pull this kind of stuff, its only once the customer pulls their head out of the ....they see what has been going on. Most companies are guilty of not standing fully behind their product at some point....I refer back to protecting the shareholder ROI. With a few minutes research, I bet just about any search of a consumer complaint website would show most manufacturers have quirky problems they don't fix. I won't jump on the lets torch Toyota when they are all in the same camp.

You're completely missing the point. Yes, every automaker has had massive recalls, every automaker has at one point tried to delay fixing problems. The point is that Toyota has covered up problems over and over again and those problems are now coming to light. One can only wonder what else Toyota has half-assed in their quest to overtake GM as sales leader that will later lead to more problems and possibly more owner deaths.

The bottom line is that Toyota's vehicles are no better (and in many cases, worse) than GM's or Ford's and they no longer deserve their reputation for quality. They haven't deserved that reputation for some time now.

[20Camaro11]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

The bottom line is that Toyota's vehicles are no better (and in many cases, worse) than GM's or Ford's and they no longer deserve their reputation for quality. They haven't deserved that reputation for some time now.

For the most part I agree with your statement...I believe we agree more than you think. I am just saying I don't participate in the Manufacturer bashing....because the shoe used to be on the other foot. I hated when the import lovers ragged on my Buick, Ford or whatever about PERCEPTIONS.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

For the most part I agree with your statement...I believe we agree more than you think. I am just saying I don't participate in the Manufacturer bashing....because the shoe used to be on the other foot. I hated when the import lovers ragged on my Buick, Ford or whatever about PERCEPTIONS.

Yeah, but there is a big difference. Maybe GM's quality sucked ass, but I don't remember them trying to cover stuff up and lying about it.

[20Camaro11]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Yeah, but there is a big difference. Maybe GM's quality sucked ass, but I don't remember them trying to cover stuff up and lying about it.

google is your friend! took me two seconds to refute that.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-02-...97_1_gm-pickup

http://www.autosafety.org/general-mo...car-brake-lock

the list could go on and on. I didn't include all the NHTSA investigations that led to recalls over the last 30 years. In many of those situations, I bet GM did the right thing and admitted fault and fixed it even before the ordered recall, right..............

I googled GM, but I bet similar links exist for most if not all car manufacturer...its part of business. Nobody parts ways with their cash easily.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

google is your friend! took me two seconds to refute that.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-02-...97_1_gm-pickup

http://www.autosafety.org/general-mo...car-brake-lock

the list could go on and on. I didn't include all the NHTSA investigations that led to recalls over the last 30 years. In many of those situations, I bet GM did the right thing and admitted fault and fixed it even before the ordered recall, right..............

I googled GM, but I bet similar links exist for most if not all car manufacturer...its part of business. Nobody parts ways with their cash easily.

touche

[Sax1031]

If you believe that any of the auto manufacturers have a moral leg to stand on you are truly naive.

[CombatVet0311]

the simple fact of the matter is, cars aren't supposed to accelerate when you press the brakes or let of the throttle, and no it's not "media hype", I easily reproduced my mother's claim of unintended acceleration within 20 min of driving her corolla myself.

Unless somehow we are both experiencing some sort of vertigo or sensory overload, the car intermittently surges forward sometimes. It almost feels like it could be a problem with the ecu programming itself or some kind of calibration error with the electronic throttle body.

People will say things like "every auto manufacturer has their problems" which they do, or "you guys are just bashing Toyota" which admittedly I am, or bring up any number of defective parts from other manufacturers that they found on the internet in an attempt to deflect criticism of Toyota or make Toyota seem as if they are on equal footing with other manufacturers.

The simple fact of the matter is, my mom's corolla is unpredictable and will be soon traded in on a comparable Chevrolet or Ford product you can call it "hype" if you want to.

I wont be recommending Toyota to my family or loved ones in the midst of their current problems as I'm not sure beyond speculation that all of their products meet standards of safety that seem to be met by other manufacturers.

You can choose to put your family in a sketchy car if you so desire but know that you have been warned multiple times from various outlets

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by CombatVet0311

the simple fact of the matter is, cars aren't supposed to accelerate when you press the brakes or let of the throttle, and no it's not "media hype", I easily reproduced my mother's claim of unintended acceleration within 20 min of driving her corolla myself.

Unless somehow we are both experiencing some sort of vertigo or sensory overload, the car intermittently surges forward sometimes. It almost feels like it could be a problem with the ecu programming itself or some kind of calibration error with the electronic throttle body.

People will say things like "every auto manufacturer has their problems" which they do, or "you guys are just bashing Toyota" which admittedly I am, or bring up any number of defective parts from other manufacturers that they found on the internet in an attempt to deflect criticism of Toyota or make Toyota seem as if they are on equal footing with other manufacturers.

The simple fact of the matter is, my mom's corolla is unpredictable and will be soon traded in on a comparable Chevrolet or Ford product you can call it "hype" if you want to.

I wont be recommending Toyota to my family or loved ones in the midst of their current problems as I'm not sure beyond speculation that all of their products meet standards of safety that seem to be met by other manufacturers.

You can choose to put your family in a sketchy car if you so desire but know that you have been warned multiple times from various outlets

This is exactly what happened to the big 3 in detroit. They built sub quality cars that had glaring safety issues and then lost customers.

The same thing is now happening to Toyota.

[20Camaro11]

A lot of the hysteria is media driven hype comparable to the Ford Explorer rollover incident in the 90's. Whatever the problem is, it is likely not nearly as big as its being made out to be. I don't worry about it because I will never drive a Toyota, I find Toyota's styling to be too vanilla. I haven't advocated anyone go buy a Toyota or GM for that matter. I would recommend a Ford Fusion for your mother, I really enjoy my Mercury Milan.

[CombatVet0311]

media driven? I could have sworn it was mentioned that I reproduced the unintended acceleration defect

"media driven" and "hype" are normally phrases or adjectives used to describe unsubstantiated claims, luckily for us we have friendly and informative forum members like myself that can say one way or another if we've experienced Toyota's defects and can articulate accurately the symptoms of said defects.

whether or not one chooses to believe my claims to be valid or a fallacy is his/her prerogative

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

A lot of the hysteria is media driven hype comparable to the Ford Explorer rollover incident in the 90's. Whatever the problem is, it is likely not nearly as big as its being made out to be. I don't worry about it because I will never drive a Toyota, I find Toyota's styling to be too vanilla. I haven't advocated anyone go buy a Toyota or GM for that matter. I would recommend a Ford Fusion for your mother, I really enjoy my Mercury Milan.

You're right. Brakes are overrated.

[20Camaro11]

I didn't say I don't believe your statement. It absolutely is true, but did the vehicle accelerate out of control? Ummm no. My grandmother had a 92 Ford Tempo that accelerated uncontrollably. After being taken in and diagnosed normal 3 times previous, the car accelerated out of control and killed my great aunt and seriously hurt my grandmother. Ford denied anything was wrong until there was fatality when they quietly settled out of court with my grandmother and my aunts family. Do I go on threads and bash Ford for this? My 2005 Monte Carlo was the biggest rolling terd I ever drove....do I bash Chevy? So I guess brakes are important...don't put words in my mouth. Maybe Ford and GM have a better handle on the PR side of handling quality and safety issues.

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by CombatVet0311

the simple fact of the matter is, cars aren't supposed to accelerate when you press the brakes or let of the throttle, and no it's not "media hype", I easily reproduced my mother's claim of unintended acceleration within 20 min of driving her corolla myself.

Unless somehow we are both experiencing some sort of vertigo or sensory overload, the car intermittently surges forward sometimes. It almost feels like it could be a problem with the ecu programming itself or some kind of calibration error with the electronic throttle body.

The NHTSA hasn't been able to reproduce any of the out of control throttle conditions, and the testing on recoverable black boxes from claimed unintended acceleration cases so far have all shown that operator error or the floormat/sticky throttle was the culprit (which were fixed under recall). Operator error was the primary cause. So that's where the media hype claim is coming from. If you can reproduce this condition so easily- you need to get this car on a flatbed and get it to the NHTSA immediately. Not to Toyota.

So an entire team of scientist and engineers can't reproduce this but you easily can in your Mom's Corolla?

***********************
I agree with what someone else wrote, Toyota isn't any better than Ford, GM, etc. at least for the last decade. By all indications it's really roughly equal, but the perception is that they are largely better based upon marketing and a view of history that doesn't allow for change.

I still think Toyota's press to be #1 in the world so quickly is what's leading to these issues. Their quality can't keep up with their growth.

It's also pretty clear American cars have a quality perception gap on the world market. That's got to be fixed because the Big 3 can't make it in today's world by only selling to Americans.

As an example, the other vehicle in the "world big 3" is VW. America is sort of lukewarm on VWs, but in much of the world they consider VWs to be more reliable than American cars. The Brits were surveyed recently and rated VW electrics to be "very good" and by all that's holy there must be a marketing campaign and a half to make anyone think of VW electrics as "very good". They're still getting nostalgia credits for beetles AFAIK. I recently read that in the UK, the Ford Mondeo was rated last on the list for reliability and #1 was a Skoda?