[Cleric]

"To be honest with you, right now if the UAW members went in these facilities and worked for nothing...it would not help the companies that much," he said.

Full article here: http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news...ion=2008120313

Oh yeah. Publish that. Real smart way to keep your jobs.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Well...when you have an entire population of UAW haters chanting "pay-cut, pay-cut, pay-cut"...what do you want him to say?

This was the quote in full context, and he's basically repeating what's been said before about the idea behind the $1 CEOs...it's not going to do anything to help, it's purely symbolic - and logically worthless to worry about.

Gettelfinger said the union will suspend the "jobs bank" at GM. That is a jobs guarantee program that pays laid off auto workers up to 95% of their regular pay. He said the union is also open to suspending the jobs bank at Ford and Chrysler. But he said this and other help from the union is not enough to save the automakers from their current crisis.

"To be honest with you, right now if the UAW members went in these facilities and worked for nothing...it would not help the companies that much," he said.

The part in Bold is what most interests me the most...this is HUGE. It's pretty much the entire point behind a union; worker protection in the event of layoffs. It's gone...that was one of the points the senators kept bringing up during the hearings; I'm glad they chose to get rid of it!!

[Cleric]

I understand what he is saying but i think it just makes the whole company look internally inept and unable to perform.

This will cause more people to email there congressman saying dont support.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Cleric

I understand what he is saying but i think it just makes the whole company look internally inept and unable to perform.

How come?

[Cleric]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

How come?

Essentially as i understand it he is saying labor rates is not whats killing the company. Since direct labor is the easiet thing to attack. All the ideas the proposed will take time. Selling divisions, reducing dealerships, developing and producing fuel efficent cars.

They are trying to rally support. Right now this idea is largely unpopular. I have seen polls from 30-60% against the idea. Also Congress would have to pass this bill next week and get the president to sign off. That will take a lot to make that happen. The union president comes out and sees even if you stop paying us it, it would not help that much.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I think the general concensus among the automakers, and the UAW is that the primary reason for the mess they're in right now is the market, and lack of sales pure and simple. So even if everyone from the bottom up worked for a dollar, it wouldn't help...I'm pretty sure that's what he meant, but I see what you mean.:(

[GTAHVIT]

Yeah but even if the market turns around, GM and the others are still (currently) way behind on the labor cost to build a car. I like the 2010 UAW rates that have been negotiated. I think they should be implemented now. I do think the UAW is the ongoing problem and the market was the straw that broke the back....

I think I stole that analogy from someone else here...

The sooner the union comes around the better. IMHO

[HeatherR]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Yeah but even if the market turns around, GM and the others are still (currently) way behind on the labor cost to build a car. I like the 2010 UAW rates that have been negotiated. I think they should be implemented now. I do think the UAW is the ongoing problem and the market was the straw that broke the back....

I think I stole that analogy from someone else here...

The sooner the union comes around the better. IMHO

I couldn't agree more...The point is to be ready when the market turns around, not make changes once that happens. Also, congress wants to know what the plan is. I think if the general population knew exactly what the job's bank is they would be more enraged than they were about the use of private jets by the CEOs. The Job's Bank should have been eliminated years ago!

[dbotsfordtat]

Has anyone seen the public discussion of the 700 Billion - 2.5 Trillion Wall Street Bailout? No? Because there wasn't one. Did you know some of the companys receiving money from that have used it to give bonuses and fund getaways for employee's? Ever heard of a diversion?
Think having health care and retirement is just being greedy huh? I would like to see each person that attacks GM employees on this site cowboy up and tell us a little about your pay and benefits, maybe we can trim some fat.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Yeah but even if the market turns around, GM and the others are still (currently) way behind on the labor cost to build a car. I like the 2010 UAW rates that have been negotiated. I think they should be implemented now. I do think the UAW is the ongoing problem and the market was the straw that broke the back....

I think I stole that analogy from someone else here...

The sooner the union comes around the better. IMHO

Ron was asked this at the first Congressional hearings, and he explained they cannot move any faster because blah blah blah, blah, blah and blah.

I guess I tuned out his explanation; But he did have one.

[HeatherR]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

Has anyone seen the public discussion of the 700 Billion - 2.5 Trillion Wall Street Bailout? No? Because there wasn't one. Did you know some of the companys receiving money from that have used it to give bonuses and fund getaways for employee's? Ever heard of a diversion?
Think having health care and retirement is just being greedy huh? I would like to see each person that attacks GM employees on this site cowboy up and tell us a little about your pay and benefits, maybe we can trim some fat.

I agree that the Detroit 3 are getting treated differently and that is unfair. I think that strings should have been attached to the money given to the financial institutions to try to keep the things you mentioned from happening.

As far as attacking GM employees--There is no way that the Jobs Bank can be defended...There is nothing like that in any other industry. Do you think the job's bank should be kept as it has been used in the past? If so, why? There have been many abuses to health care by GM employees...Trust me I grew up in an area where the workers and doctors were as corrupt as they come (Youngstown, Ohio).

Having access to health care and retirement is not being greedy. That is not what I was saying (I am not speaking for the others). And anyone not being impacted by this--This is just a glimpse at the problems with health care and retirement in this country no matter your occupation. GM is simply experiencing it first. Other pensions, hell, social security are all in trouble!

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by HeatherR

I agree that the Detroit 3 are getting treated differently and that is unfair. I think that strings should have been attached to the money given to the financial institutions to try to keep the things you mentioned from happening.

As far as attacking GM employees--There is no way that the Jobs Bank can be defended...There is nothing like that in any other industry. Do you think the job's bank should be kept as it has been used in the past? If so, why? There have been many abuses to health care by GM employees...Trust me I grew up in an area where the workers and doctors were as corrupt as they come (Youngstown, Ohio).

Having access to health care and retirement is not being greedy. That is not what I was saying (I am not speaking for the others). And anyone not being impacted by this--This is just a glimpse at the problems with health care and retirement in this country no matter your occupation. GM is simply experiencing it first. Other pensions, hell, social security are all in trouble!

I don't work for GM and I don't know much about their Jobs Bank. I think it is meant to help workers who are laid off pay their bills, ie: mortgage, electricty, ect... Those things have to be paid regardless of your job status and I think their intentions are good. I'm sure there is a ton of corruption in this program and throughout the UAW just like there is a ton of corruption in every human endeavor. Research public employee unions or any government entitlement program and you'll get an Idea of what I mean. Sadly, its human nature to break the rules. You are never going to fix the human condition by killing the Unions, you are only going to supply the already overpaid CEO's with cheaper labor and exasperate the already overwelming wealth gap in this country. Employers, with few exceptions ,are generally not benevolent, look at working conditions in this country before Unions. Do you want to go back to that? Nothing personal, I think working class people should stand together because I am one and that is the only way we can get a fair shake. I don't think it's ok to have ANY poverty in a country with the most billonaires per capita. I believe everybody in America (and the World, (baby steps.)should have access to quality healthcare, a roof over their heads, and food on their tables. The fact that some people live like gods and others die for lack in this country is a national disgrace. It's even worse that we all accept this as normal and ok. Now let me step down from my soapbox and patiently wait the arrival of my new Camaro.

[edog]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

Has anyone seen the public discussion of the 700 Billion - 2.5 Trillion Wall Street Bailout? No? Because there wasn't one. Did you know some of the companys receiving money from that have used it to give bonuses and fund getaways for employee's? Ever heard of a diversion?
Think having health care and retirement is just being greedy huh? I would like to see each person that attacks GM employees on this site cowboy up and tell us a little about your pay and benefits, maybe we can trim some fat.

I will cowboy up...

I make a salary and commission for the sales my store achieves. I am enrolled in a 401k w/5% match from my company as well as term life. I save money on my own for addition pleasures and to safeguard my family if an unfortunate situation was to occur and I lost my employment.

I do get medical benefits which I pay over 3,600 a year for, and I get vacation time as well.

I do not get a pension to retire with nor do I get a 95% payout from my company if I am unemployed (Uncle Sam gives me 208 dollars a week until I find another job). I think those benefits would be awesome, but in todays day and age the companies have moved away from pension plans. They simply cannot afford to maintain retires in this manner. This world has changed since the 50's and 60's (not necessarily for the better).

I work retail, and I recall the days when even Sears restructured their pay and retirement benefits (1991). If you took the pay cut you could keep your job, if not they would accept your resignation w/o benefits.

It does not seem fair, but it is reality in this world we live in. Everyone wants something for nothing. We want it faster and cheaper. Look at the post on this site. How can QUALITY companies stay staffed and meet the demand from the public when all they do is look for the cheapest price they can find. If you want Nordstrom's service be willing to pay Nordstrom's prices.

[HeatherR]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

I don't work for GM and I don't know much about their Jobs Bank. I think it is meant to help workers who are laid off pay their bills, ie: mortgage, electricty, ect... Those things have to be paid regardless of your job status and I think their intentions are good. I'm sure there is a ton of corruption in this program and throughout the UAW just like there is a ton of corruption in every human endeavor. Research public employee unions or any government entitlement program and you'll get an Idea of what I mean. Sadly, its human nature to break the rules. You are never going to fix the human condition by killing the Unions, you are only going to supply the already overpaid CEO's with cheaper labor and exasperate the already overwelming wealth gap in this country. Employers, with few exceptions ,are generally not benevolent, look at working conditions in this country before Unions. Do you want to go back to that? Nothing personal, I think working class people should stand together because I am one and that is the only way we can get a fair shake. I don't think it's ok to have ANY poverty in a country with the most billonaires per capita. I believe everybody in America (and the World, (baby steps.)should have access to quality healthcare, a roof over their heads, and food on their tables. The fact that some people live like gods and others die for lack in this country is a national disgrace. It's even worse that we all accept this as normal and ok. Now let me step down from my soapbox and patiently wait the arrival of my new Camaro.

Well, I do not work for GM either, but am in a union (teacher's union). Do a little research on the jobs bank--you'll be shocked! It goes a little further than helping pay utilities during a transitional period between jobs. People can milk it for years. I agree that the unions had a valid place, but have not evolved the way they needed to. Again, I was not bashing GM employees-my husband is a GM employee (salaried) and wanted to clarify my original post.