[MR.Z28]

Im guessing their just going to decrease the weight of the car. while enhancing all the amazing horsepower and torque of the car ultimately a faster car ... so far i don't see a dramatic change mostly facial on the exterior and different colors for the camaro and maybe some new navigation in the console of the car and if they do change it completely it will turn out to be just like the 80's camaro completely redefined and utterly a disappointment as some may say.

[ClaymoreZ28]

Wow ...

Lots of folks need to calm down here
Brilliant thing is that there is already word on the legacy continuing into a 6th gen given the current success of the 5th gen

Remember when we thought the Camaro was dead and gone.....

We are living in exciting times - Camaro, Mustang and Challengers on the streets again - and V8 Camaros in the driveways of those who want them... Lets not blow one news article out of all proportion.

[Hopper]

Originally Posted by greenrail

CAFE is an acronym for:

Corporate AVERAGE Fuel Economy

The key word is average.

I was going to post this, but greenrail beat me to it. The new CAFE standards are tougher to hit, to be sure, but we've been massaging the good old internal combustion engine for around 100 years and it got progressively better over time and will continue to get better until a more efficient, economical and robust powertrain replaces it. Given the flexibility (i.e. freedom to go anywhere at a moments notice), current infrastructure (gas stations on every corner), time to refuel (5 minutes and you're going again) and relative low cost vs. other options, I don't see the internal combustion engine going away anytime soon. Electric has limited range and takes a lot of time to recharge and I don't see many hyrdogen stations for fuel cell cars right now either. That means we're stuck with making all versions of the internal combustion engine better.

Consumers buy vehicles to meet different needs and it's the manufacturer's challenge to fill those needs while still hitting CAFE. People that haul lots of stuff, tow boats and push snow need big V8 powered trucks. They will consume more gas due to the laws of physics. Other consumers like V8 powered sports cars to race or just go fast, but some (actually more over time) are also happy with the same style and less power. Some consumers (and as a enthusiast and possibly can't comprehend why) just want to get from point A to point B safely, reliably and economically without any concern for how fast they do it or how they look. By meeting all these consumer needs with various products we will hit the CAFE standards.

Big V8 trucks and V8 powered sports cars are not going away. We will just need to improve fuel economy over time with new technologies and sell a lot of the new 40 MPG Chevy Cruze and 32 MPG Equinox to offset the lower fuel economy of the V8 Camaros, Silverados and Corvettes. The American consumer has a funny way of voting with their dollars. They tell us what they want by what they buy. They will eventually tell their elected representatives what they want too by not allowing them to keep their jobs if they don't like the direction the country is going. Bottom line...the consumer always wins eventually! Don't worry about your V8 Camaros. They will be around a long time as long as Fbodfather and I have something to say about it!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

REALLY? Can you provide some links to any independent testing such as road test reviews or other unbiased comparisons that select any Caddy over any M3?

Am I misunderstanding your post, or is ONE of the "M3"s in your post a typo? Because either you think Caddy DID, or you think they CAN, right?

The gist of it is, I can assure you that in the fun-to-drive department, a 335 is FAR, FAR superior to a CTS.

As for new CTS-V vs M3, I have no experience with that, and I'd expect that to be a tougher matchup for the Bimmer. I'd love that huge power of the V.

This is not the topic of the thread, and yes I meant "M5" in my first statement. You strike me as a "Beemer guy"...which is unfortunate, because experience leads me to believe there will be little in the way of conversation with you on this even with the corrected typo. BUT -- if you'd like to continue the convo, shoot me a PM.

Originally Posted by Hopper

I was going to post this, but greenrail beat me to it. The new CAFE standards are tougher to hit, to be sure, but we've been massaging the good old internal combustion engine for around 100 years and it got progressively better over time and will continue to get better until a more efficient, economical and robust powertrain replaces it. Given the flexibility (i.e. freedom to go anywhere at a moments notice), current infrastructure (gas stations on every corner), time to refuel (5 minutes and you're going again) and relative low cost vs. other options, I don't see the internal combustion engine going away anytime soon. Electric has limited range and takes a lot of time to recharge and I don't see many hyrdogen stations for fuel cell cars right now either. That means we're stuck with making all versions of the internal combustion engine better.

Consumers buy vehicles to meet different needs and it's the manufacturer's challenge to fill those needs while still hitting CAFE. People that haul lots of stuff, tow boats and push snow need big V8 powered trucks. They will consume more gas due to the laws of physics. Other consumers like V8 powered sports cars to race or just go fast, but some (actually more over time) are also happy with the same style and less power. Some consumers (and as a enthusiast and possibly can't comprehend why) just want to get from point A to point B safely, reliably and economically without any concern for how fast they do it or how they look. By meeting all these consumer needs with various products we will hit the CAFE standards.

Big V8 trucks and V8 powered sports cars are not going away. We will just need to improve fuel economy over time with new technologies and sell a lot of the new 40 MPG Chevy Cruze and 32 MPG Equinox to offset the lower fuel economy of the V8 Camaros, Silverados and Corvettes. The American consumer has a funny way of voting with their dollars. They tell us what they want by what they buy. They will eventually tell their elected representatives what they want too by not allowing them to keep their jobs if they don't like the direction the country is going. Bottom line...the consumer always wins eventually! Don't worry about your V8 Camaros. They will be around a long time as long as Fbodfather and I have something to say about it!

[Archangel]

ok...so "IF"..."IF" GM went brain dead and killed the V8...why don't you just take the 6th gen camaro and find an ls3... transplant....and BOOM... V8 powered alpha platform size muscle car. I like it. I swear all this apocalyptic talk about the future of our camaros is giving me a headache...they died once and gave ford nightmares...then they rose again gave ford the runs and ulcers...i say one more time for fun...ford engineers can continue to pull their hair out...if they have any left. and BMWs are nice yes..but they lack so much torque

[KSCamaro]

Originally Posted by Hopper

Big V8 trucks and V8 powered sports cars are not going away. We will just need to improve fuel economy over time with new technologies and sell a lot of the new 40 MPG Chevy Cruze and 32 MPG Equinox to offset the lower fuel economy of the V8 Camaros, Silverados and Corvettes. The American consumer has a funny way of voting with their dollars. They tell us what they want by what they buy. They will eventually tell their elected representatives what they want too by not allowing them to keep their jobs if they don't like the direction the country is going. Bottom line...the consumer always wins eventually! Don't worry about your V8 Camaros. They will be around a long time as long as Fbodfather and I have something to say about it!

Wow.
It's almost unbelievable how wrong you are.
A ostrich can bury it's head in the sand, but I didn't know they could type.
40 mpg isn't going to do a thing. It's going to take a new energy source to change things.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

Wow.
It's almost unbelievable how wrong you are.
A ostrich can bury it's head in the sand, but I didn't know they could type.
40 mpg isn't going to do a thing. It's going to take a new energy source to change things.

A high-volume 40 MPG car won't increase GM's CAFE average?

It's unbelievable how wrong YOU are.

[urbancamarofan]

Originally Posted by greenrail

CAFE is an acronym for:

Corporate AVERAGE Fuel Economy

The key word is average. Not every utomobile produced will be a four cylinder box with wheels. This is hte kind of hsyteria the media generates by making false assumptions based on rumor. Get the facts folks.

Yes, times are changing. The Camaro isn't for everyone. Which to me, at least, means not all is lost here. We may get a somehwat more fuel efficient autombile that perfoms just as well or maybe even better.

Let's see how this all unfolds.

Elimate CAFE, it's unconstitional.

[tyrus]

v6 v8 who cares its a camaro

[Milk 1027]

[Speedfreak]

no v8 no care

[Hopper]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

Wow.
It's almost unbelievable how wrong you are.
A ostrich can bury it's head in the sand, but I didn't know they could type.
40 mpg isn't going to do a thing. It's going to take a new energy source to change things.

Hey, I respect your opinion, but you can make your point without personal insults. Improvements in CAFE aren't the only answer, but it does go a long way toward reducing our consumption of foreign oil which is good for our economy and national security. Also, by raising the CAFE average, the fleet of vehicles on the road burns less gas and net emissions are reduced which helps the environment. I'm not against CAFE, but I am against limiting personal choice which eliminating trucks and sports cars with V8s clearly does.

Regarding alternative sources of energy, I'm all for it. That's why GM has the largest fleet of e85 capable vehicles on the road, is currently marketing 2 mode hybrids, has fuel cell equipped Equinoxes on the road in consumer hands for real world testing, and is coming out with the Chevy Volt electric vehicle which is truly a game changer. 60 miles of range without using a single drop of oil and up to 300 miles with the gas powered range extender. In excess of 70% of this country's population doesn't put 60 miles on their car each day. These people will emit nothing and not use any gas at all in the Volt. Improvements to internal combustion engines, e85 and Hybrids are all aimed at improving fuel economy, reducing emissions and using less gas. Fuel cells and electric vehicles are the future, but they will take time to develop and build he infrastructure. They are also very expensive right now. CAFE is the first step. Alternative energy sources are the second but, until costs come down and infrastructure is built, they are not viable mass market solutions.

The consumer wants the capability they have today. They want to go where they want, when they want to. They don't want to limit their range of mobility. They don't want to be stranded because there's no hydrogen refuelling station in the town they travelled to. They don't want to plan 4 hour stops on trips to recharge their electric car. They want to carry their gear without limitation. They want safety and reliability and, yes, some enthusiasts want to go fast. Until we solve these problems with alternative energy sources (and we will) the internal combustion engine is the most economical, flexible, and viable solution available for the mass market. We will continue to improve it. Less emissions and more fuel economy, because that's what's expected of us and what consumers demand. To not do this would be irresponsible...not to mention bad for business.

Sorry mods for jacking this thread. Somehow the Zeta to Alpha rumor thread turned into a CAFE thread and "don't take away my V8". I felt compelled to respond.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Hopper

Sorry mods for jacking this thread. Somehow the Zeta to Alpha rumor thread turned into a CAFE thread and "don't take away my V8". I felt compelled to respond.

Don't worry. The points you made, while off-topic were respectful and valid.

I think we should all try to get back on the topic of a supposed Alpha-based 6thGen (God, I like typing that) Camaro, now. I think of a billion other things about the car we could wonder about besides the engine.

[tmurphycardesign]

Originally Posted by BLUESMOKE69

This is driving me crazy!!!! I have been saving money for over two years and from the looks of it I'll have to wait another five years!!!! Wow, I really don't know what to do. Ideally, I would love for the "alpha" CAMARO to be smaller, lighter and better handling. The question is can I hold out that long. By the way...what is meant by "everything looks wrong?"

what i mean by that is there are certain proportional aspects to the gen 5 camaro that (and im being picky) are not desirable traits in design.. for instance the amount of metal or meat in the front fender area from a side view is a little to thick, the front and rear end lost a lot of the plan view that the concep had in order to meet safety requirements..there are many little aspects to every car once it meets production that drives us designers crazy..and most are forgivable..........and remember.ive seen whats next for the camaro and it is very much improved, however...i bought the gen 5.. because in the end it still is a beautiful car EVEN compared to whats goin to be gen 6, and i love it! the reason i first said anything was to help calm the fires of everyone getting worried about something that in the end is a very good thing!