[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I don't disagree with this. And I know the UN already had 7000 people there to help keep the peace (bad sign to start with, and the General of that force is Brazilian...eek). However it'd be nice if the UN ramped up, got in there, and did something right for once. This seems to me to be something the UN should be excellent at.

UN.......

Originally Posted by nova

Yep. A lot of people don't think about it, but a nuclear powered aircraft carrier makes a helluva disaster relief platform. Its a mobile airfield, hospital and giant desalination plant (400,000 gallons a day capacity!) all rolled into one.

Good point.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I don't disagree with this. And I know the UN already had 7000 people there to help keep the peace (bad sign to start with, and the General of that force is Brazilian...eek). However it'd be nice if the UN ramped up, got in there, and did something right for once. This seems to me to be something the UN should be excellent at.

I'll also put this out there. Which of the countries on this list are best prepared to help Haiti? Besides the proximity to the US, the fact that the US has the capacity to work on both terrible terrain and in terrible circumstances by taking advantage of advanced technology and damned good training makes the US the best candidate to help Haiti. If everyone on Earth had these capacities, there might not have been this disaster in the first place. On the other hand, it might not be as democratic a world if everyone else had this sort of military. Additionally, the US represents approximately 22% of the UN's annual budget based on their dues scale. Countries with a higher capacity to pay must pay more, and the US is the largest contributer. Even if the US were not to send troops to Haiti, the US would be paying for them.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

UN.......

LOL, no- I get it. But this seems like what the UN SHOULD be doing instead of the other things they actually do.

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I'll also put this out there. Which of the countries on this list are best prepared to help Haiti? Besides the proximity to the US, the fact that the US has the capacity to work on both terrible terrain and in terrible circumstances by taking advantage of advanced technology and damned good training makes the US the best candidate to help Haiti. If everyone on Earth had these capacities, there might not have been this disaster in the first place. On the other hand, it might not be as democratic a world if everyone else had this sort of military. Additionally, the US represents approximately 22% of the UN's annual budget based on their dues scale. Countries with a higher capacity to pay must pay more, and the US is the largest contributer. Even if the US were not to send troops to Haiti, the US would be paying for them.

I don't disagree with this either. I know the USA is about the best prepared individual country to deal with just about anything anywhere. Let alone in a country that's pretty close to us.

However...our 22% doesn't seem to buy much.

Maybe a better way to say it is: you beat me hands down on logic, but my gut says that the UN should have been all over this instead of being these individual country reactions.

Interestingly I read this (regarding avoiding the severity of the disaster):

"One group of scientists thinks so. Back in 2008, Eric Calais and Paul Mann, geophysicists who study fault lines in the Caribbean, predicted that Haiti would soon face such a devastating quake. The researchers reported that the Enriquillo fault, the line that Haiti sits upon, could produce a 7.2-magnitude quake if strained enough. Using GPS measurements, the team said that the fault was inching along at 7 millimeters per year, a moderate crawl in the realm of fault lines. But since this highly strung fault line has stretched several millimeters per year for the last 250 years, it was time for it to snap.

"Unfortunately our number is fairly close to what happened yesterday. If you think of the fault as a rubber band, as being pulled 7 millimeters per year at a constant rate, it will eventually break," Calais says."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...h/4342434.html

Not that I'd expect a government to jump every time they got a report like this, but apparently there wasn't any action of any kind.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

LOL, no- I get it. But this seems like what the UN SHOULD be doing instead of the other things they actually do.



I don't disagree with this either. I know the USA is about the best prepared individual country to deal with just about anything anywhere. Let alone in a country that's pretty close to us.

However...our 22% doesn't seem to buy much.

Maybe a better way to say it is: you beat me hands down on logic, but my gut says that the UN should have been all over this instead of being these individual country reactions.

Interestingly I read this (regarding avoiding the severity of the disaster):


Not that I'd expect a government to jump every time they got a report like this, but apparently there wasn't any action of any kind.

Oh I completely agree with you, this is EXACTLY what the UN should be used for. Hence the

As for the gov. not taking action.... as the report was in 2008, there probably wasn't too much time for them to really do anything if they had tried. The most I can see getting done is bringing their hospitals and government buildings up to code. And granted that would definitely help, but even if all the hospitals had stayed standing, they still wouldn't be able to keep up with the huge number of wounded.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Oh I completely agree with you, this is EXACTLY what the UN should be used for. Hence the

As for the gov. not taking action.... as the report was in 2008, there probably wasn't too much time for them to really do anything if they had tried. The most I can see getting done is bringing their hospitals and government buildings up to code. And granted that would definitely help, but even if all the hospitals had stayed standing, they still wouldn't be able to keep up with the huge number of wounded.

The suggestions made by the guys who turned in the report suggesting buttressing the hospitals and schools to be disaster recovery locations and figuring out disaster communications.

I just thought it was interesting. Not so much that I'm indicting what Haiti failed to do so much as just a reminder that every so often a 'the sky is falling' prediction is accurate. I don't know that it would have stopped anything that already occured, but the people would know where to go so you could centralize the food/water/shelter delivery instead of just wandering the streets.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

The suggestions made by the guys who turned in the report suggesting buttressing the hospitals and schools to be disaster recovery locations and figuring out disaster communications.

I just thought it was interesting. Not so much that I'm indicting what Haiti failed to do so much as just a reminder that every so often a 'the sky is falling' prediction is accurate. I don't know that it would have stopped anything that already occured, but the people would know where to go so you could centralize the food/water/shelter delivery instead of just wandering the streets.

Good points. And giving people at least a little sense of direction (and some hope) in a catastrophe like this makes all the difference.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

LOL, no- I get it. But this seems like what the UN SHOULD be doing instead of the other things they actually do.



I don't disagree with this either. I know the USA is about the best prepared individual country to deal with just about anything anywhere. Let alone in a country that's pretty close to us.

However...our 22% doesn't seem to buy much.

Maybe a better way to say it is: you beat me hands down on logic, but my gut says that the UN should have been all over this instead of being these individual country reactions.

Interestingly I read this (regarding avoiding the severity of the disaster):

"One group of scientists thinks so. Back in 2008, Eric Calais and Paul Mann, geophysicists who study fault lines in the Caribbean, predicted that Haiti would soon face such a devastating quake. The researchers reported that the Enriquillo fault, the line that Haiti sits upon, could produce a 7.2-magnitude quake if strained enough. Using GPS measurements, the team said that the fault was inching along at 7 millimeters per year, a moderate crawl in the realm of fault lines. But since this highly strung fault line has stretched several millimeters per year for the last 250 years, it was time for it to snap.

"Unfortunately our number is fairly close to what happened yesterday. If you think of the fault as a rubber band, as being pulled 7 millimeters per year at a constant rate, it will eventually break," Calais says."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...h/4342434.html

Not that I'd expect a government to jump every time they got a report like this, but apparently there wasn't any action of any kind.

I agree with you completely. I thought this thread needed more facts and your post was the most appropriate to quote to provide them.

The 22% we pay goes toward all sorts of things. The humanitarian aid that the UN provides goes unnoticed by most, and their missions demand payroll so that the soldiers in Africa and Asia will not desert, which usually means paying pretty well. The UN's long reach makes it very expensive, and North America's investment in that wide reach is often forgotten by those who benefit from it. The US and Canada have both been very generous to the world.

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Haiti is in a permanent state of disaster.

Even before the quake, its only the human suffering of this levl that has us going in to put a spit shine on the place.

They needed us to show up for the past upteen years.........

[2ndgenz28]

Good God, on HLN they just showed Gov Haiti dump trucks, dumping loads of bodies n trash into open holes. No one is taking account or even trying to keep track.

Haiti is gonna explode into civial war, which we should not stop.
If the folks in power are so good, Haiti would not be in such dier straights,
even before the quake.

Im totally shocked n taken back by seeing them dump bodies like that.........

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

Good God, on HLN they just showed Gov Haiti dump trucks, dumping loads of bodies n trash into open holes. No one is taking account or even trying to keep track.

Haiti is gonna explode into civial war, which we should not stop.
If the folks in power are so good, Haiti would not be in such dier straights,
even before the quake.

Im totally shocked n taken back by seeing them dump bodies like that.........

In power? There is practically nothing to project their power from. Many of the government buildings have been destroyed, as well as the infrastructure like electricity. But even if they could get a message out, any radios or TV's that the people might have had are probably buried in the rubble of their house. Plus if there is a civil war, it will just be thugs with guns trying to get power while hundreds of thousands (probably millions) are without food, water, medical aid, and shelter. Civil war is the last thing the Haitians need. I cannot believe that you think it shouldn't be prevented.

[2ndgenz28]

If an earth quake hit Iran right now, with similar situation as Haiti, which put the people in a better situation to take over the powers that be to make change for a better future, would you stop that too????



From what the news has shown, [which I can only judge by] the people of Haiti may of found their chance for real change for a better life, that they have wanted to happen for many years but were powerless compared to the Haiti gov, which now the Haiti gov is now on the same lvl as them. F'ed

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

If an earth quake hit Iran right now, with similar situation as Haiti, which put the people in a better situation to take over the powers that be to make change for a better future, would you stop that too????



From what the news has shown, [which I can only judge by] the people of Haiti may of found their chance for real change for a better life, that they have wanted to happen for many years but were powerless compared to the Haiti gov, which now the Haiti gov is now on the same lvl as them. F'ed

A civil war will result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands MORE innocent civilians. With civil war, all aid workers will go back home and the Haitians will have absolutely NOTHING for a very long time. What meager resources the government may have would be devoted exclusively to fighting rebels NOT rebuilding. Regardless of how well the current government may be doing, a civil war will be more disastrous to the nation than the earthquake.

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

A civil war will result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands MORE innocent civilians. With civil war, all aid workers will go back home and the Haitians will have absolutely NOTHING for a very long time. What meager resources the government may have would be devoted exclusively to fighting rebels NOT rebuilding. Regardless of how well the current government may be doing, a civil war will be more disastrous to the nation than the earthquake.

Well I don't think it would be war like that, it would be more like when they tell the leaders to leave the country and never come back. Like what happened to the Marcos's

Member his wife, Emelda or something, 10,000 pairs of designer shoes while the rest of the country went barefoot n hungry.

I would never suggest more should die. If the people went bloodthirsty, stop it, but if they want a real democratic change, we should not stop it.

[THUMPER20X]

They only way a countries people can break away from repression is internally. You have to let the country take its own course, let it naturally "Evolve and redistribute its power and wealth". Sometimes it works out badly but sometimes it works out good and stays stanle for a long time. Whatever is gonna happen let it happen. The last thing the world needs is a Caribbean Afganistan, especially the Haitian people. The earthquake thing is horrible and all the help should be given. I just hope the government there distributes everything as best they can and the looters are kept at bay. I agree the Marines are needed especially because about 2000 heavy duty convicts escaped from their biggest jail and they are on the loose. Im sure theyre not gonna help give out water. I think the earthquake is just the start to a huge chain of events that will change that area forever. Full marks to the US for once again stepping up to the plate in the fullest. A country to respect and be very proud of. Canada I guess would do more but I think our government will still be on Christmas Kindergarten break until Easter or something. I know we have given Aid and a couple ships ets but theres no reason we shouldnt do more like ship some heavy equipment and stuff to clean up. Theres alot of excavation equipment up here that stays dormant till the spring.