[Baddawg53]

I've decided that my next project is going to be converting to a dry sump system. I have read the general consensus is it's not really necessary, but I've lost an engine and so have 3 others that I know personally. Plus I think it's gonna be a cool project...

I haven't really found any links to anyone who has done this already on our cars, but I know someone has to have done it.

Originally I was thinking about getting the kit LME offers here. My question with this kit is, after you remove the factory oil pump, is there a block off plate to cap the holes in the block? The site doesn't really cover that.

I was also thinking copying the C7 dry sump setup might work, with their internal pump it solves that question. My question there is if the C7 LT1 pan would physically fit into a Camaro?

Cost wise I'm sure copying the C7 setup would be slightly cheaper, but I'm not super concerned about the cost difference because they're both expensive.

I have some time, it'll be my project next winter, I just want to plan, get the parts etc. So any input or links to information about the conversion would be much appreciated.

[m6-lt1]

I don’t think you can go the C7 route. The dry sump C7’s have a literal different crankshaft. The fact that they are different versus the wet sump engine tells me the crankshaft is somehow a part of the whole dry sump system GM uses.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

The name you will find in the road racing circles is Dailey Engineering. If I were doing the conversion for my LT4, before putting any money on this platform, I would begin with the LTR block, let LME prep, balance and assemble it and depending on the depth of your pockets, have them tune it on the dyno so they can set up your dry sump system perfectly before you drop it into the car.

Now... if you are going to build the system, the Corvette stuff is all unique to the Corvette. The crank and everything is specific and will not cross over.

Here you go!!

https://www.daileyengineering.com/

LMK if you need any assistance with this project. I have built several LS engines in C5s like ours with their components.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I don’t think you can go the C7 route. The dry sump C7’s have a literal different crankshaft. The fact that they are different versus the wet sump engine tells me the crankshaft is somehow a part of the whole dry sump system GM uses.

I definitely was aware that a different crankshaft was needed with the longer snout, and I believe a different front cover as well. I'm tempted to buy a used C7 oil pan just to check the dimensions and see if it'll clear the subframe. Only if it's super cheap of course.

@ Patriot motorsports I have seen the Dailey systems, they look incredible and as you said, well respected in the racing world. Unfortunately the funds don't go as deep as a new complete fully built and dyno tuned engine especially when there is a fairly recent katech 416 engine in the car now. I'm just trying to protect this one for now. I figured the C7 parts working plug and play would be a stretch, but this is why I'm asking the questions. Installing a different crank if the rest of the parts were to fit would be easy enough.


I think it's probably a far better option to put an external pump on the engine with better scavenging capabilities, but this is what I'm trying to figure out.

[bishopts]

So in hard cornering your shallow pan sump can possibly slosh all the oil to one side and suck in air. If that happens you end up dropping oil pressure until the oil sloshes back. We don't have shallow pans. We have very deep pans honestly. A dry sump won't do anything for you but piss money away. Poor machinery, pushing stock parts beyond stock limits, things just going wrong, those are what takes down these engines.
My rev limiter was raised from the previous owners tune. Early on into my ownership i ran it into reline and bent 2 valves and 3 push rods. It wasn't anything to do with the engine, it was pushed beyond its stock parts limit. Luckily it was less than $500 to fix. But i moved the limiter back to where stock parts need to stay and have no problems since then.
So if you want a more reliable engine then piss your money away in the actual engine weak points not things that you want to be the weak point.
Simple logic would be look at how many people track their cars in this forum or have over 1000hp and still run stock oil pan sump systems with no problems.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by bishopts

So in hard cornering your shallow pan sump can possibly slosh all the oil to one side and suck in air. If that happens you end up dropping oil pressure until the oil sloshes back. We don't have shallow pans. We have very deep pans honestly. A dry sump won't do anything for you but piss money away. Poor machinery, pushing stock parts beyond stock limits, things just going wrong, those are what takes down these engines.
My rev limiter was raised from the previous owners tune. Early on into my ownership i ran it into reline and bent 2 valves and 3 push rods. It wasn't anything to do with the engine, it was pushed beyond its stock parts limit. Luckily it was less than $500 to fix. But i moved the limiter back to where stock parts need to stay and have no problems since then.
So if you want a more reliable engine then piss your money away in the actual engine weak points not things that you want to be the weak point.
Simple logic would be look at how many people track their cars in this forum or have over 1000hp and still run stock oil pan sump systems with no problems.

I do have a Solo 2 DL, the data definitely doesn't show any drops in oil pressure. As I said in my 1st post I am aware that most people would say our deep pans are totally fine. Two of the 4 people I know personally (myself included) who lost engines were completely stock, myself and another were on stock bottom end and heads/cam and had the bottom end fail. All the failures are centered around the area of the 7&8 rods/crank/bearings. I'm no engineer, but I also know with a quality dry sump system there's no chance of picking up air and with our wet sump there is at least a possibility. Plus, it'll be a really cool project!! I should have figured this out before replacing the engine but here we are.

[bishopts]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

I do have a Solo 2 DL, the data definitely doesn't show any drops in oil pressure. As I said in my 1st post I am aware that most people would say our deep pans are totally fine. Two of the 4 people I know personally (myself included) who lost engines were completely stock, myself and another were on stock bottom end and heads/cam and had the bottom end fail. All the failures are centered around the area of the 7&8 rods/crank/bearings. I'm no engineer, but I also know with a quality dry sump system there's no chance of picking up air and with our wet sump there is at least a possibility. Plus, it'll be a really cool project!! I should have figured this out before replacing the engine but here we are.

Maybe the failure is low flow in the crank oil channel? I don't know the flow path but if its going from front to back then you could lose pressure toward the back as each journal is bleeding off some of the volume.
If it's fed from the ends and the center then maybe you have a restriction in the rear oil feed channel to the last main cap.
Maybe the last journals bearing lock broke off and the spun bearing blocked the oil feed.

If you have no signs of oil pressure loss then trying to overbuild you oil pressure system isn't going to fix anything.
If you want to overbuild it for fun. Just remember whatever took it down before can do it again.

Normal oil pressure is about 40ish. The stock pump can put out 75psi. So really if you just changed the tune for the oil pressure limits you can get higher than stock pressure by simply telling the pcm to stop throttling oil pressure.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by bishopts

Maybe the failure is low flow in the crank oil channel? I don't know the flow path but if its going from front to back then you could lose pressure toward the back as each journal is bleeding off some of the volume.
If it's fed from the ends and the center then maybe you have a restriction in the rear oil feed channel to the last main cap.
Maybe the last journals bearing lock broke off and the spun bearing blocked the oil feed.

If you have no signs of oil pressure loss then trying to overbuild you oil pressure system isn't going to fix anything.
If you want to overbuild it for fun. Just remember whatever took it down before can do it again.

Normal oil pressure is about 40ish. The stock pump can put out 75psi. So really if you just changed the tune for the oil pressure limits you can get higher than stock pressure by simply telling the pcm to stop throttling oil pressure.

I can tell you the specifics on my engine, and one of the others. Seems like both spun the rod bearings on 7/8. My engine also spun the #4 mains but they just swapped places, not a complete failure, the crank journal for the 7/8 rods also cracked, and the engine still ran before I pulled it out. The other one had the rods break on 7 and 8 and the bearings spin.

My theory is that maybe there was some aeration in the oil and even without a noticeable drop in pressure you still have insufficient lubrication. This is my theory based on absolutely no research into that specifically. If it was an anomaly that these engines fail it'd be a very different approach for me, but it's not, and they do fail. And a dry sump is better than a wet sump, and that's not really debatable. There's a reason no race team chooses a wet sump and it's not only about mounting the engine lower.

[bishopts]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

I can tell you the specifics on my engine, and one of the others. Seems like both spun the rod bearings on 7/8. My engine also spun the #4 mains but they just swapped places, not a complete failure, the crank journal for the 7/8 rods also cracked, and the engine still ran before I pulled it out. The other one had the rods break on 7 and 8 and the bearings spin.

My theory is that maybe there was some aeration in the oil and even without a noticeable drop in pressure you still have insufficient lubrication. This is my theory based on absolutely no research into that specifically. If it was an anomaly that these engines fail it'd be a very different approach for me, but it's not, and they do fail. And a dry sump is better than a wet sump, and that's not really debatable. There's a reason no race team chooses a wet sump and it's not only about mounting the engine lower.

Its usually for mounting the engine lower.

[bishopts]

You could probably achieve what you're trying to do with a baffling system. Kinda like what the fuel system uses around the fuel pump

[Baddawg53]

I believe it's improved racing that has the baffle kit you're taking about.

Also that won't help me reach my goals because my goal is to install a dry sump system.

[bishopts]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

I believe it's improved racing that has the baffle kit you're taking about.

Also that won't help me reach my goals because my goal is to install a dry sump system.

Lol. True

[Katech_Mike]

A real racing dry sump is doable but a real PITA in these cars.

This is a Dailey 3 stage we did. A 4 stage could fit with a little more modification.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by Katech_Mike

A real racing dry sump is doable but a real PITA in these cars.

This is a Dailey 3 stage we did. A 4 stage could fit with a little more modification.

Oh buddy!!! Now I definitely wanna do this! Beautiful work there! Great to know that Dailey system works in there. This is definitely the direction I'll go.

Did you just delete the oil pump? Did you plug the port that goes through the timing chain tensioner? It's the only aspect I've yet to figure out how it works. I believe it is the feed to the camshaft and the vvt?