[Bosse'sBoss]

Hi all,
Having some time to spare, I was looking at a fastestlaps.com comparison.
The C7 Corvette Stingray Z51 is the fastest in straight line, but the 6th gen Camaro SS1LE, would eat it for breakfast in most track. Of course I know that the NA C7 Corvette Grand Sport (Z07 package) would eat both at the track and even the ME C8 Z51. All great cars from Chevy.https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/upszzo4f17hm

[Msquared]

I don't know where you're getting your data, but an SS 1LE would not "eat the lunch of" a C7 Z51 on a road course or autocross. The C7 is a lighter, smaller, lower-CG car with a more favorable weight distribution than a Camaro, and it has true SLA suspension front and rear as well. Assuming both are on equal tires (but still in their OE sizes), the Corvette will be faster in cornering and braking as well as acceleration and top speed. The SS 1LE comes equipped with stickier, track-specialty Goodyear Supercar 3 tires, whereas the C7 Z51 came with something more street oriented, I believe Michelin Super Sport run-flats. If the Camaro beat a C7 Z51 on the same track on the same day, then that was purely down to the tires...which are consumables any person with common sense would replace for tires that excel in whatever type of use he intends for the car.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I don't know where you're getting your data, but an SS 1LE would not "eat the lunch of" a C7 Z51 on a road course or autocross. The C7 is a lighter, smaller, lower-CG car with a more favorable weight distribution than a Camaro, and it has true SLA suspension front and rear as well. Assuming both are on equal tires (but still in their OE sizes), the Corvette will be faster in cornering and braking as well as acceleration and top speed. The SS 1LE comes equipped with stickier, track-specialty Goodyear Supercar 3 tires, whereas the C7 Z51 came with something more street oriented, I believe Michelin Super Sport run-flats. If the Camaro beat a C7 Z51 on the same track on the same day, then that was purely down to the tires...which are consumables any person with common sense would replace for tires that excel in whatever type of use he intends for the car.

His data is showroom stock which as you stated means the SS 1LE is on the stickier tires. I think it is much closer than you think though when both cars are equally tired. The Z51 I think has less “track goodies” than the SS 1LE. I believe smaller wheels and brakes and it’s probably still more oriented towards the street versus the 1LE and of course the grand sport.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

His data is showroom stock which as you stated means the SS 1LE is on the stickier tires. I think it is much closer than you think though when both cars are equally tired. The Z51 I think has less “track goodies” than the SS 1LE. I believe smaller wheels and brakes and it’s probably still more oriented towards the street versus the 1LE and of course the grand sport.

You can think whatever you want. Those of us who autocross and track our cars alongside similarly prepped C7s and other cars know. The bigger brakes mean nothing to one-lap speeds, but since the C7 is 300-400lbs lighter and also has a lower CG and more rearward weight distribution, it just doesn't need the heroic brakes that a Camaro does. Same with tire widths. Same with spring rates. So the base C7 is already faster than an SS 1LE...although it might not be as suited to pounding in lots of laps on a road course due to having a small oil sump and less cooling for everything. But I wouldn't bet that the Z51 is "more street oriented." It has bigger brakes and stiffer springs and bars than a base C7, and it also comes with Magneride dampers, the same eLSD our cars get, a full dry sump system, and more cooling. In short, it's very much the equivalent of the 1LE package.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Msquared

You can think whatever you want. Those of us who autocross and track our cars alongside similarly prepped C7s and other cars know. The bigger brakes mean nothing to one-lap speeds, but since the C7 is 300-400lbs lighter and also has a lower CG and more rearward weight distribution, it just doesn't need the heroic brakes that a Camaro does. Same with tire widths. Same with spring rates. So the base C7 is already faster than an SS 1LE...although it might not be as suited to pounding in lots of laps on a road course due to having a small oil sump and less cooling for everything. But I wouldn't bet that the Z51 is "more street oriented." It has bigger brakes and stiffer springs and bars than a base C7, and it also comes with Magneride dampers, the same eLSD our cars get, a full dry sump system, and more cooling. In short, it's very much the equivalent of the 1LE package.

I track too. It does not put power down as well as the gen6 camaro is the general consensus I’ve seen people say. That’s why I said it’s closer than you think. The mag ride is optional, not standard and you have to option the better seats. That’s why I said it doesn’t come with the same track goodies. It probably is clearly better at autocross since that favors lightness so I definitely agree with that one. On same day track tests, the 1LE is typically slower than grand sports by around 2-2.5 seconds. A grand sport is equally/more aggressively tired than a 1LE. I doubt a grand sport is only 1-1.5 seconds faster than a z51. Pretty sure the grand sport is stiffer and has different part numbers for it’s suspension bits versus the Z51. I stand by what I said that the z51 is still more street oriented suspension and wheel wise versus the 1LE.

[Msquared]

The thing about putting power down is just silly. C7s are all faster in autocross situations, where putting power down is a really big deal.

I thought MRC was part of the Z51 package, but I guess it was a separate option. No matter, I'd guess that most Z51s were also optioned with it. If a particular Z51 doesn't have MRC dampers, then it's that much easier to add really good aftermarket shocks to it for a further performance increase.

All C7s have different spring and bar combos, so of course the GS has different part numbers. The "regular" GS is not that stiff a car, though. To get the highest-performing GS, you had to also spec the Z07 package on it, and that came with a stiffer rear spring and bigger front bar.

Whatever. Believe what you want.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Whatever. Believe what you want.

I am going by actual data around tracks. Again, I’m sure the C7 is the superior autocross car as no matter what, the gen6 can’t overcome its weight penalty. Actual data and lap times show that the 1LE is right there with the C7 Z51 around actual tracks, not cones in a parking lot. I am also not saying the 1LE is superior, just that it’s close/right there with the C7 Z51.

[TransamGTA350]

I also track my SS1LE quite a bit and have been out on track with many C7 Z51's and agree with what others have said that on equal tires with equal drivers, the Corvette is going to be quicker around the track than the Camaro. The 2 cars are close enough that driver and/or tire would edge one car over the other, but all things equal, the Corvette is faster.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I am going by actual data around tracks. Again, I’m sure the C7 is the superior autocross car as no matter what, the gen6 can’t overcome its weight penalty. Actual data and lap times show that the 1LE is right there with the C7 Z51 around actual tracks, not cones in a parking lot. I am also not saying the 1LE is superior, just that it’s close/right there with the C7 Z51.

The only data you have has the cars on vastly different tires, and not on the same day/conditions. Again, for on-track performance, the C7 is lighter, its weight is better distributed, it's lower, and it has a lot less aero drag. On the same model tires, it accelerates harder, has a higher top speed, corners harder, and brakes quicker. It's no contest.

The Camaro SS 1LE is an amazingly good car for how much it cost, and it is happy to run laps all day. You can also daily-drive it, and it's classed in a great SCCA Solo Street class. It's a far better value than an equivalently fast Mustang. It's a great car, and I've owned one and done all those things with it for almost six years now. I'm not knocking it. I'm saying we shouldn't kid ourselves about its performance relative to a C7 Z51: the SS 1LE isn't "right there." Those are in two different classes of "fast."