[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by DeuceCam

There was also a noteworthy drop in 2018 from the previous year. I think the decline is a combination of things, most of which are the discussed in this thread. Plus, there was controversy with the Camaro facelift, particularly 2019 for the SS, and the subsequent facelift for 2020+ SS was kind of a band-aid fix for the 2019 model. (IMO the pre facelift LT and SS Camaro's look better.) These things along with post covid price hikes and lower new vehicle supply, probably exacerbated the problem.



I think the difference here is the intro of the new model in 2020.

For sure. But the point I was responding to was that the reason Camaro dropped sales year after year starting in 2020 was due to the economy. But for Corvette, a more expensive car, the economy didn't have the same effect. The new car in 2020 lifted sales. Maybe that carries into 2021. But sales stayed up for several years despite the economy. It's because the two cars approach different buyers. With some overlap, but not complete overlap.

[DeuceCam]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

For sure. But the point I was responding to was that the reason Camaro dropped sales year after year starting in 2020 was due to the economy. But for Corvette, a more expensive car, the economy didn't have the same effect. The new car in 2020 lifted sales. Maybe that carries into 2021. But sales stayed up for several years despite the economy. It's because the two cars approach different buyers. With some overlap, but not complete overlap.

Agree.

[Craig]

Midlife crisis then: Corvette
Midlife crisis now: starter home

The economy isn’t monolithic. For the Corvette demographic things have never been better. The Camaro demographic, the middle class, is shrinking and can no longer afford sports cars.

[Corky]

Originally Posted by Craig

Midlife crisis then: Corvette
Midlife crisis now: starter home

The economy isn’t monolithic. For the Corvette demographic things have never been better. The Camaro demographic, the middle class, is shrinking and can no longer afford sports cars.

Agreed... As a boomer I can attest to the jump in Camaro/Corvette sales as the retiree numbers age out and grow.. And most older generations have a connection to the car culture of days past....Around here the younger generations have completely shifted to the truck as the new cool/modification factor...And the ones that have Camaros are trying hard to drive them year round{Camaro/Challenger/Mustang are the first contestants to be seen along the road in a winter storm here as it's always been}..
Including all the pandemic and education factors it was a generally rough time in sports car sales ...Nothing like buying a new Camaro then being FORCED not to work during the pandemic...lol... It all adds up to the diminished interest from the newer generations..

[2023-SS]

I think the new camaro is miserably uncomfortable.
I have had about 10 camaro's, met the F-bod Father, pics with him & all that jazz.

auto-crossed 4th gens, car shows, DD, cross country'ed my 94 Z28

I was shopping for a mustang, and the used prices were ridiculous.
we test drove mustangs, and we liked them

we found a cheap deal on a 2023 camaro in the midwest and bought it, without even driving a local camaro to see if we liked it.

we bought it online, then fly out there & drove it home
about an hour into the drive with the knee bolsters making it feel like a casket (or a shoebox) we both decided we would NOT have bought the camaro due to the narrowness of the knee area, and the seats not reclining is very annoying.

the trunk is miserable, all the taillights should go up with the trunk lid.

and the purpose of our car was to be a weekend travel car, but the convertible top only leaves enough space for two carry ons, so not much room to be useful, much less the entry hole for the trunk being tiny.

is anyone using a Camaro as their DD/primary vehicle?

you could DD a mustang, travel in it, carry golf clubs, go shop for antiques.

the camaro is really a niche secondary vehicle, or a race/open track car, but not a DD from the comfort factor.

we loved our 4th Gen convertible and traveled all over in it, kids could actually fit in rear seat.

IDK, but it seems like the 5th/6th gen is a rich persons "spare" car.

our car is growing on us, and maybe we will get used to the tight knee area & the tiny trunk if we only use it for weekends, and not for weeks at a time

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Corky

Agreed... As a boomer I can attest to the jump in Camaro/Corvette sales as the retiree numbers age out and grow.. And most older generations have a connection to the car culture of days past....Around here the younger generations have completely shifted to the truck as the new cool/modification factor...And the ones that have Camaros are trying hard to drive them year round{Camaro/Challenger/Mustang are the first contestants to be seen along the road in a winter storm here as it's always been}..
Including all the pandemic and education factors it was a generally rough time in sports car sales ...Nothing like buying a new Camaro then being FORCED not to work during the pandemic...lol... It all adds up to the diminished interest from the newer generations..

I ran into Ed Welburn at an Automotive Hall of Fame event one evening. He's both an inductee and a board member. What we were talking about was the fact that the last (5) Powertrain Portfolio Planning directors, self included, all bought Camaros when they retired from GM. Three of us bought SS. Four of us bought convertibles.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I ran into Ed Welburn at an Automotive Hall of Fame event one evening. He's both an inductee and a board member. What we were talking about was the fact that the last (5) Powertrain Portfolio Planning directors, self included, all bought Camaros when they retired from GM. Three of us bought SS. Four of us bought convertibles.

I still love his slammed roof design to this day It's one of the unique, distinctive features of the Camaro.

Other sports cars look like raindrops with their curved roofs, all roughly the same from Mustang to Porsche, but not the Camaro. Is it the best aero design, no, is it the most practical, no, but does it look freaking amazing, hell yeah.

...and as we all know, if the beltline were an inch or two lower, the car would still look and drive awesome, and people would complain way less about visibility, too

[bishopts]

Originally Posted by 2023-SS

I think the new camaro is miserably uncomfortable.
I have had about 10 camaro's, met the F-bod Father, pics with him & all that jazz.

auto-crossed 4th gens, car shows, DD, cross country'ed my 94 Z28

I was shopping for a mustang, and the used prices were ridiculous.
we test drove mustangs, and we liked them

we found a cheap deal on a 2023 camaro in the midwest and bought it, without even driving a local camaro to see if we liked it.

we bought it online, then fly out there & drove it home
about an hour into the drive with the knee bolsters making it feel like a casket (or a shoebox) we both decided we would NOT have bought the camaro due to the narrowness of the knee area, and the seats not reclining is very annoying.

the trunk is miserable, all the taillights should go up with the trunk lid.

and the purpose of our car was to be a weekend travel car, but the convertible top only leaves enough space for two carry ons, so not much room to be useful, much less the entry hole for the trunk being tiny.

is anyone using a Camaro as their DD/primary vehicle?

you could DD a mustang, travel in it, carry golf clubs, go shop for antiques.

the camaro is really a niche secondary vehicle, or a race/open track car, but not a DD from the comfort factor.

we loved our 4th Gen convertible and traveled all over in it, kids could actually fit in rear seat.

IDK, but it seems like the 5th/6th gen is a rich persons "spare" car.

our car is growing on us, and maybe we will get used to the tight knee area & the tiny trunk if we only use it for weekends, and not for weeks at a time

I daily drive mine now. But my drive is about 7 miles one way.
My biggest complaint is no lumbar adjustment. Ive got the seat adjusted in a way that is comfortable. It's not the cars fault that i have a bad back, but i feel like lumbar adjustment could have been added into the seat easily in production.

[JT6Speed]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I still love his slammed roof design to this day It's one of the unique, distinctive features of the Camaro.

Other sports cars look like raindrops with their curved roofs, all roughly the same from Mustang to Porsche, but not the Camaro. Is it the best aero design, no, is it the most practical, no, but does it look freaking amazing, hell yeah.

...and as we all know, if the beltline were an inch or two lower, the car would still look and drive awesome, and people would complain way less about visibility, too

One of my favorite parts about this car is the side profile actually. So much so I have a nice picture of it on my wall.

I also loved the side profile of my 2014 Mustang GT. Had that classic fastback style.

[Joshinator99]

Agree with the comments about the Camaro simply being more “hardcore” than the equivalent Mustang (for example SS vs GT). Even before I modded my 2SS, it was definitely more “track” oriented” than my wife’s equivalent Mustang GT Premium. That said, although the Camaro FELT faster on the street due to the torque of the 6.2 engine, it actually wasn’t any faster 0-60 or 1/4 mile than the Gen3 Coyote Mustang. So that brings me back to my earlier comment about “muscle cars”. If you can get similar straight line performance out of more comfortable, easier to live with car, I can see why the Mustang sold.

On a more selfish level, I’m so glad the Camaro existed in its form. I honestly feel like it’s a safer, better, lighter & more ridged platform to go 150+ MPH in the quarter mile in BECAUSE of the fact that it was designed to be a performance car first and everything else second.

So, why not both LMAO Agree that is first world thing lol

[AZCamaroFan]

when i see people posting about shopping for antique's and golf clubs....do you not realize pony cars were born in the 60s for young people?

that market no longer exists . people don't come out of high school into good paying blue collar jobs anymore. at one point when my dad was in his mid 20s he had two cars and a small house he bought on the GI bill after being drafted, all on just a blue collar salary. by the time people get through college today they're buying 'sensible' cars. i've said it many times over the years, but people keep making up other reasons. that market started drying up 35 years ago and never came back. and it's not 'lack of testosterone' either because sales of trucks tripled. the Camaro can't be all things to all people. even at the height of 5thgen sales it was only selling what the camaro and firebird were selling combined 25 years ago. now alone in the market the mustang isn't selling all that well.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by 2023-SS

I think the new camaro is miserably uncomfortable.
I have had about 10 camaro's, met the F-bod Father, pics with him & all that jazz.

auto-crossed 4th gens, car shows, DD, cross country'ed my 94 Z28

I was shopping for a mustang, and the used prices were ridiculous.
we test drove mustangs, and we liked them

we found a cheap deal on a 2023 camaro in the midwest and bought it, without even driving a local camaro to see if we liked it.

we bought it online, then fly out there & drove it home
about an hour into the drive with the knee bolsters making it feel like a casket (or a shoebox) we both decided we would NOT have bought the camaro due to the narrowness of the knee area, and the seats not reclining is very annoying.

the trunk is miserable, all the taillights should go up with the trunk lid.

and the purpose of our car was to be a weekend travel car, but the convertible top only leaves enough space for two carry ons, so not much room to be useful, much less the entry hole for the trunk being tiny.

is anyone using a Camaro as their DD/primary vehicle?

you could DD a mustang, travel in it, carry golf clubs, go shop for antiques.

the camaro is really a niche secondary vehicle, or a race/open track car, but not a DD from the comfort factor.

we loved our 4th Gen convertible and traveled all over in it, kids could actually fit in rear seat.

IDK, but it seems like the 5th/6th gen is a rich persons "spare" car.

our car is growing on us, and maybe we will get used to the tight knee area & the tiny trunk if we only use it for weekends, and not for weeks at a time

I DD's my 2021 LT1 for around 6 months. Car was fine with me but just felt like i was driving a boat as i am very picky about the size of what i drive. Never a prob with it. The C7 Z51 was just and day better for me. I DD's a 2015 GT stange and it was fine but the power came on later vs a Vette. Now driving a Kia EV6 GT and it is much bigger than my Bolt but pulls harder than my Vettes did. Just pops up to a 100 in a flash.

[speedyink1]

Originally Posted by 2023-SS

is anyone using a Camaro as their DD/primary vehicle?

I use the Camaro as a DD, but I also have a pickup truck. Between the two, I have my bases fully covered, and literally have never wished my Camaro had more space in it. If I know I need to carry something large or bulky, I take the truck, done. Otherwise, most days I drive the Camaro because I'm not lugging big crap around. I can fit groceries and most things I shop for in the Camaro just fine.

[GroundhogSS]

[QUOTE=2023-SS;11506582
is anyone using a Camaro as their DD/primary vehicle?
[/QUOTE]


I DD my convertible. Not a problem for me. If we travel in it, we use the back seat and the trunk. If you look behind the screen when the top is down, there is at least 10 inches of space under there for various small stuff. Tools, air pumps, etc. At times when we need more space, we use my wife's Yukon. Back seat is not a problem because all of the kids are grown. We occasionally have the smaller grand kids back there but use the Yukon when we have the older ones or have a large group.


Ran into some people in Myrtle Beach a few years ago that had all this in their convertible.