[Llamarage]

Picked up a 2017 ZL1 (auto) with 3000 miles on it a year ago. Great car first V8 been inline 6 for most my life. Got use to it then took it to the track (circuit not drag) and loved it. Being a new platform and very green in the track scene, what would be some general upgrade paths for the car.

Don't need any more power at the moment due to my skill level on the track. I have Foregelines with cup 2s waiting for next season. Other than that the car is stock. If there is a build link please provide it as most of the builds on here I see are for power.
I'm mostly lost when it comes to the suspension and if I should keep the staggered stance or change box setup tire sizes etc.

I know that for track the following needs to be improved cooling, brakes, aero and weight reduction, and of course safety cage, harness etc. But still don't know how to start in the suspension department. Any advise would be very helpful for the car and the track.

[cdb95z28]

Answers in RED. Take it FWIW from 12+ year or so track day driver.

Originally Posted by Llamarage

Picked up a 2017 ZL1 (auto) with 3000 miles on it a year ago. Great car first V8 been inline 6 for most my life. Got use to it then took it to the track (circuit not drag) and loved it. Being a new platform and very green in the track scene, what would be some general upgrade paths for the car.

Lots to unpack there, but since you're a newbie to track days, keep it simple for a while so you can develop your skills.

Don't need any more power at the moment due to my skill level on the track. I have Foregelines with cup 2s waiting for next season. Other than that the car is stock. If there is a build link please provide it as most of the builds on here I see are for power.

Good move with quality wheels. What sizes and offsets are they? Cup 2s are good tires but there are better choices where a consistent tire will help you develop your skills. Lots of build threads here, gotta just start lookiing around here on the forums. The search functions here suck so just go to Google and type in what you want to find and camaro6.com. Everyone has different outlooks and goals. But as mentioned, keep things simple. There are some mods that help alignment adjustment and durability. The OE brakes are plenty capable IF you stay after the fluid (fresh high quality DOT4) and maintain the hard parts. Learn to observe them and understand what you are feeling.


I'm mostly lost when it comes to the suspension and if I should keep the staggered stance or change box setup tire sizes etc.

Square setup is great for maximizing tire wear. But on the big power of the ZL1, the stagger helps with the power-on exit traction. I run square on my SS 1LE but 455HP is more manageable than 650.

There's lot to learn on the alignments of these cars. As mentioned, there is room to modify here to get more front camber and help both end's alignment durability. Lots here on the forums concerning that.

I know that for track the following needs to be improved cooling, brakes, aero and weight reduction, and of course safety cage, harness etc. But still don't know how to start in the suspension department. Any advise would be very helpful for the car and the track.

The ZL1 is plenty capable on cooling and brakes for most tracks and skills. Keep fresh oil in it and use quality Top Tier fuel. Follow the GM performance supplement. Grip greater than the OE SC3 necessitates higher viscosity oil. I run Mobil 1 15W50. Brake coling can be improved with the addition of the Cadillac CT5 Blackwing front brake deflectors.

If you want aero, I'll say it...just trade for a ZLE. It's already wonderfully engineered with all that good stuff. Working thru aero tuning and skill development is not a good combo.

Worry about weight reduction much later. But removing tire/wheel weight is always good.

Suspension. The ZL1 is super capable. GM did a great job integrating all of the systems for the track. Develop your skills, understand what you are feeling in the car and understand what any potential mod will do. A GM/Gen6/C8 chassis integration engineer buddy told me you can easily f*@k up these cars more than to improve on them. Sure, are there things that can be improved on. Certainly. GM has a box to work in. Even as track focused as these cars are, the car has to be alot to everyone. I've modded my SS 1LE. Kinda the low hangin fruit. ZLE front radius rod and solid rear subframe mounts, rear alignment durability mods, front strut mods for more camber, brake pads and antiroll bars. The latter, I'll argue, was warranted for the SC3R and Pirelli slick use. But for the OE SC3, not needed. Suspension work requires lots of tuning. It's an extremely dynamic system so understanding goes along way.


Doing the safety mods is always a great step.

Brake fluid, track alignment, track day wheel set. Rinse and repeat. Work on your skills, ask lots of questions, read much, get consistent then think about mods.

[VaporPressure]

The car in stock form can easily keep up with your skill until you're well at the very fast end of the advanced groups. Brakes and cooling don't need to be upgraded. Brakes are phenomenal. There are some rare reports of auto trans cars overheating on track but a lot less likely up in the pacific NW. High temp brake fluid is really the only thing needing a swap.

Suspension upgrades - not necessary at first but eventually, the best bang for buck might be finding lightly used DSSVs off a ZLE. If you're one of the people who bought a regular ZL1 because they wanted to maintain some semblance of street comfort, you could consider adjustable coilovers like MCS but that'll be more expensive.

Tires and an extra set of wheels are a good start. The staggered set up is good for handling characteristics. A square set up is probably better once you get quite a bit faster and does help with tire wear, but comes with small headaches like extended studs and spacers. You can also start getting the car a bit oversteery on corner entry which is disconcerting at first and could actually make you drive slower.

Lots of good info on the track section of the forum, and plenty of different pathways to suit your particular interests, skill, budget, etc.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Llamarage

what would be some general upgrade paths for the car.

The only thing the car needs is a driver mod. Hopefully your first HPDE in the ZL1 included instruction. If so, continue it. If not, get some.

The car needs nothing (perhaps except brake fluid) besides for you to follow the official published GM track prep instructions. If the brake fluid isn't new, flush it and consider an upgrade there. The stock FE4 suspension is superior to 90% of vehicles you will see on the same circuits. And the stock GYF1SC3 tires and brakes are the best performing and lowest cost solutions you will find for the car. And you'll use a lot of them if you are out on the track on the weekends. Yes there are marginally better things that can be done, but at significant expense which you will not have sufficient experience to realize benefit from until you have many hours on the track in your car.

So save your mod money for track insurance, fuel and consumables until you can out-drive the car. Most can't. If you get serious and the car doesn't have PDR, then consider an aftermarket lap timer.

[KingLT1]

Check the supercharger cooling system and make sure it's full. I would add an expansion tank. The biggest issue on this platform is the SC coolant is often underfilled from the factory because it's a PITA to properly fill and bleed the air out...in turn causes a major loss in performance especially for road course racing due to high inlet air temps.

[Llamarage]

Good move with quality wheels. What sizes and offsets are they.

19x10" 19x11” for offsets 20mm front 43mm rear camber -3 front -2 rear

Cup 2s are good tires but there are better choices.

Any recommendation so I can do some research.

Brake coling can be improved with the addition of the Cadillac CT5 Blackwing front brake deflectors.

Was looking for that exact part thank you. I've had to replace my pads and rotors once already due them over heating.

If you want aero, I'll say it...just trade for a ZLE.

Would the following not work ? https://shop.aprperformance.com/collections/chevrolet

Work on your skills, ask lots of questions, read much, get consistent then think about mods.

Will do

[Llamarage]

Originally Posted by VaporPressure

The car in stock form can easily keep up with your skill until you're well at the very fast end of the advanced groups. Brakes and cooling don't need to be upgraded. Brakes are phenomenal. There are some rare reports of auto trans cars overheating on track but a lot less likely up in the pacific NW. High temp brake fluid is really the only thing needing a swap.

Suspension upgrades - not necessary at first but eventually, the best bang for buck might be finding lightly used DSSVs off a ZLE. If you're one of the people who bought a regular ZL1 because they wanted to maintain some semblance of street comfort, you could consider adjustable coilovers like MCS but that'll be more expensive.

Tires and an extra set of wheels are a good start. The staggered set up is good for handling characteristics. A square set up is probably better once you get quite a bit faster and does help with tire wear, but comes with small headaches like extended studs and spacers. You can also start getting the car a bit oversteery on corner entry which is disconcerting at first and could actually make you drive slower.

Lots of good info on the track section of the forum, and plenty of different pathways to suit your particular interests, skill, budget, etc.

I've had to replace my pads and rotors once already was using new stock brake fluid, I've since moved to DOT4 and haven't had a problem since.

Was originally looking to only get a 2SS from factory but the offer I got for the Zl1 was to hard to pass up. The end goal for the car is a track car not a street car.

The reason I'm somewhat stuck on suspension upgrades is in mid to low speed corners the front feels floaty if that makes since.

[Llamarage]

The only thing the car needs is a driver mod. Hopefully your first HPDE in the ZL1 included instruction. If so, continue it. If not, get some.

100% for driver mod, I've taken the Performance school courses given at Pacific raceways.
When the weather allows it I do full track days 8am to 6pm.

Yes there are marginally better things that can be done, but at significant expense which you will not have sufficient experience to realize benefit from until you have many hours on the track in your car.

Makes a lot of sense, when I do add mods it will be much later on just trying to but together a build path. Since cant do laps at the moment due to weather

So save your mod money for track insurance, fuel and consumables until you can out-drive the car.

Will do

then consider an aftermarket lap timer.

Was going to do the PDR but went with a lap timer as to get the parts for it is roughly the cost of a set of new tires.

[Llamarage]

I would add an expansion tank.

Noted thank you.

[VaporPressure]

If your end goal is for it to be a track only car, I think you already bought the wrong wheels, unfortunately. ZLE in stock form uses wider 19x11 front and 19x12 rear wheels.

As for tires the OEM ZLE tire (GYSC3R) is faster than cup2s. Other options: Bridgestone RE-71RS (RE-71RZ coming soon and probably faster), Vitour P1, Nankang CRS, Falken 660+, GYSC3, Kumho V730 (nice budget option). Hoosiers eventually after some experience, if you feel like burning cash.
A lot of track guys buy 18" wheels to run new or used slicks. 18x11 fronts and 18x12 rears using Apex wheels is the easy option here.

Without seeing your driving it's hard to say exactly what's happening with the "floaty" feeling in mid and low speed corners. But if you're already cooking your pads and buying narrow front wheels (i.e. not appreciating what increased front tire will do), it's possible that you're shocking the front on entry (overbraking, too much steering input) and generating understeer early in the corner. As a beginner, I think that kind of thing is more likely causing your issue than the stock suspension set up.

[Llamarage]

Would the more sensible option be to get lighter wheels in 19x11 and 19x12 with new stock tire, and just sit with the stock setup until my skill level improves before touching suspension ?

Will post videos of my laps next time at the track wont be for a couple of months due to weather.

For references its turn 2 and 8 where I feel it the most.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Llamarage

Would the more sensible option be to get lighter wheels in 19x11 and 19x12 with new stock tire, and just sit with the stock setup until my skill level improves before touching suspension ?

Will post videos of my laps next time at the track wont be for a couple of months due to weather.

For references its turn 2 and 8 where I feel it the most.

Don't do anything to the car (other than tires) until you're at the fast end of the advanced group. That car as is would probably finish in the top 10 at an SCCA race as select tracks.

Here's a video that 15 time SCCA National Champion Andrew Aquilante posted in a $160k Mustang Dark Horse R Factory race car on brand new sticky Hoosier A7 slicks that are basically a qualifying tire. He ran a 1:22.3 in this vid, but wins races at a 1:21.x race pace.



Here's a video of my ZL1-1LE PB about 2.5 seconds off his pace on used hard compound slicks on a car that I would go commute to work in on the following Monday.




I could probably do the same in your car with just a tire change, the stock magnaride suspension and an alignment. Drive the car and forget about modding it, because it won't make you any faster.

...and as impressive as my lap is, there was a guy that I met this season in a E90 stock road legal M3 with MISMATCHED 200tw tires up my ass and matching my times. Let this sink in.

[Olemiss540]

The front end has never felt float to me.... Only time the front end gets floaty is when the accelerator is pinned and 700hp is shoving 3800 lbs to the back wheels. You may be over braking and getting on the gas early as a result.

Make sure you have tires and pads/ fluid that are optimum for your use case, then start working on safety on weight reduction if this is truly a track only car. Don't touch the powertrain or suspension.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by Llamarage

19x10" 19x11” for offsets 20mm front 43mm rear camber -3 front -2 rear

As mentioned by others, you're already at a slight disadvantage in that you are now limited to not going with a much wider front tire than OE. IIRC a 305/30-19 generally won't fit on a 10" wheel.



Any recommendation so I can do some research.

Something that won't wear quickly but is very friendly to a novice. I don't think new drivers should be running full tilt grip tires, on a car (non-1LE ZL1) not engineered for them. Falkan RT660, Conti Extreme Contact Force, the OE SC3 in 19" size.


Was looking for that exact part thank you. I've had to replace my pads and rotors once already due them over heating.

New drivers tend to abuse brakes more than advanced drivers. Work on technique before swapping brake parts (except cooling).


Would the following not work ? https://shop.aprperformance.com/collections/chevrolet

I have zero experience with adding aero. Like anything else, getting it tuned in takes time and knowledge. Work on understanding the car in OE form.


:

Originally Posted by Llamarage

I've had to replace my pads and rotors once already was using new stock brake fluid, I've since moved to DOT4 and haven't had a problem since.

Was originally looking to only get a 2SS from factory but the offer I got for the Zl1 was to hard to pass up. The end goal for the car is a track car not a street car.

The reason I'm somewhat stuck on suspension upgrades is in mid to low speed corners the front feels floaty if that makes since.

FE4 suspension on the SS 1LE and ZL1 doesn't normally feel floaty. In fact, the suspension is quite awesome. Not ZLE awesome, but very much home at the track. The SS 1LE has less front nose weight and is a little more nible vs the ZL1 FE4. Are you aware of being able to change the MagRide damper settings? Is it possible you did not have the dmapers in Track mode? OR, was the car previously modified?

Originally Posted by Llamarage

100% for driver mod, I've taken the Performance school courses given at Pacific raceways.
When the weather allows it I do full track days 8am to 6pm.



Makes a lot of sense, when I do add mods it will be much later on just trying to but together a build path. Since cant do laps at the moment due to weather



Will do



Was going to do the PDR but went with a lap timer as to get the parts for it is roughly the cost of a set of new tires.

PDR is actually a great tool. Most don't know it is not just a camera. It captures tons of vehicle and lap data.

Originally Posted by VaporPressure

If your end goal is for it to be a track only car, I think you already bought the wrong wheels, unfortunately. ZLE in stock form uses wider 19x11 front and 19x12 rear wheels.

As for tires the OEM ZLE tire (GYSC3R) is faster than cup2s. Other options: Bridgestone RE-71RS (RE-71RZ coming soon and probably faster), Vitour P1, Nankang CRS, Falken 660+, GYSC3, Kumho V730 (nice budget option). Hoosiers eventually after some experience, if you feel like burning cash.
A lot of track guys buy 18" wheels to run new or used slicks. 18x11 fronts and 18x12 rears using Apex wheels is the easy option here.

Without seeing your driving it's hard to say exactly what's happening with the "floaty" feeling in mid and low speed corners. But if you're already cooking your pads and buying narrow front wheels (i.e. not appreciating what increased front tire will do), it's possible that you're shocking the front on entry (overbraking, too much steering input) and generating understeer early in the corner. As a beginner, I think that kind of thing is more likely causing your issue than the stock suspension set up.

^^This^^