[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

Too big and don't look good. I would never pay that as i would just get a used C7 way before that. I just got a 2023 EV6GT since it was under 30k used with 14k miles. Pulls better than my C7 but too big and heavy so i won't keep it long. C8 will never work as i can't go fishing offshore as there is no room and never trust the trans out of warranty. Think i will hunt up a used C7 Z06 with low miles. Just nothing being made i really want.

I hear ya. EVs can be powerful and fast. EVs will also most likely be heavy. I say "most likely" because Tesla has seemingly found the secret sauce to manufacturing comparatively light EVs. Our Model Y actually weighed just a little bit less than our Cadillac SRX, even though they are about the same size. And the SRX is 2WD whereas the Model Y is AWD.

But the real answer to the OP's question is the last thing you said. Nothing is being made in the class of vehicles that Camaro played in. Except Mustang. And sales of that car are slamming head on into a brick wall even though it has had zero competition until the Dodge Charger 550 with the Hurricane engine came out. And enthusiasts are pissing all over the Charger because it's an inline 6 instead of a V8. Oh, and it's heavy. And it's expensive. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln...

[JT6Speed]

Sports cars are a dying breed. Even the Supra is done after next year. Add V8 manuals to the list, they are literally bordering on extinction. What's left, only the Mustang?

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Prices are insane for everything and a lot of people can't afford a pleasure car sitting in the garage next to their SUV. People need utility, and that's why things like the Durango SRT, and Ford Explorer ST came about, to satisfy the need for utility and the urge for some performance mixed in.

Obviously the EV push has changed things too. I often hear people brag about how much faster their Tesla is than a Mustang/Camaro etc. People lost the enthusiast spirit of actually driving a car with some personality, not just turning on the appliance and charging it every night. Everyone is a red light bandit now and think they're the next Nascar prodigy.

[detamble13]

The two door car market has been shrinking for a while and the car market as a whole has been all but abandoned by gm, Ford and Dodge. Aside from the Mustang, Corvette and Charger there are no cars from the big 3. SUVs are the thing right now and appears it continues to head that way with versions covering all sizes.

The Camaro did deserve better while it was here and Road and Track wrote a good article about it.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...served-better/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Glow01

I mean, the Model S, yeah. Not every trim LOL. I have left so many Teslas in the dust I lost count. And I'm in a manual.

But on topic, I think it has been pretty much covered that enthusiasts are unfortunately not a volume market and they are a business. Which sucks, because I also agree that there are very few modern cars I would be interested in today. Would find a used C7 Z06 / ZR1, Cobra, ZL1, GTR etc. if I was to look at another performance car.

Not just Model S. Model 3 Performance would take you down in a drag or a roll. A Model Y Performance might be a driver's race. The new updated Model Y Performance that just launched would smoke(?) an SS.

Just like with gas cars, trim means a lot when talking performance. For Tesla Model 3 and Model Y you would need the Performance trim. For Hyundai Ioniq 5 you would need the Ioniq 5N, for Kia EV6 you would need the EV6 GT. Then there's the Blazer EV SS. Chevrolet says it is the fastest SS ever. But a Blazer EV any other trim, not so much.

[m6-lt1]

Op, a lot of people are talking about car sales right now but I believe your question has to do with why the 6th gen didn’t sell better during its entire life (not just the end where no one is buying sports cars anymore).

I know I’m going to get a lot of hate for this on this board but as someone who’s bought 2 and uses them for their intended purpose (tracking) I think the Camaro fails greatly at being an actual CAR and doing car stuff.

While most of us on this board have accepted the visibility issues I think they are unacceptable and first impressions matter. Yes you get used to it but a car buyer who’s not an enthusiast (ie 90% of buyers of sports cars) are not going to accept the poor visibility. And before anyone says the Mustang is just as bad, it’s not and it’s not even close. The amount of extra visibility in them is insane when you realize it’s the same type of car.

The lack of storage space in the car is insane. How can such a big car have such small door pockets? The doors are huge! There’s no where really to put your phone. The back seat is useless. Now the Mustangs isn’t great either but it can at least fit adults in a pinch. Anyone over 5’5 cannot fit in the back of a Camaro because their head will be hitting the ceiling.

The trunk opening. This is the dumbest of them all. I’ve heard it’s due to making the car more rigid but I would bet 99% of people do not care about the car being slightly more rigid. This is corrected on the Cadillacs and should have been the same on the Camaro. I know folks were surveyed about this but I don’t believe Chevy did a good enough job explaining the performance benefit and showing them how crappy the trunk opening actually is. I’d gladly sacrifice some structural rigidity so I don’t have to play legos every track weekend and would love to be able to get more than 1 wheel in the trunk.

I’m sure my post will get a lot of hate but it’s the truth. They just did not make a car that appeals to the masses that well. It’s bad at being a car. It’s great at being a sports car but the market that actually cares about that and prioritizes that (me and most others on this board) is a tiny market. Most folks buying a sports car just want something stylish with decent power that can be used everyday. This is why the Mustang sells so many more 4 bangers than the Camaro sold 4 bangers and V6’s. It appealed to non enthusiasts which is a way bigger market (please don’t take that as me saying everyone who doesn’t get a V8 isn’t an enthusiast ).

If I wasn’t fortunate enough to have 2 vehicles what probably would have happened for me is I would have bought my first Camaro due to wanting the superior performance but would eventually have moved to a Mustang after getting frustrated with its compromises as a car.

If GM brings back the Camaro as an ICE coupe, I am hoping it is more livable so that it doesn’t go extinct again. Move away from the chopped roof and high belt line.

[Martinjlm]

Well stated @m6-lt1! I will certainly not be mad at you. 6th Gen Camaro is definitely a better enthusiast's car than Mustangs compared model year to model year. But Mustang is a better everyday car.

[lowke]

I think the gen6 is great. I couldn't have got a better car for $29k new.I took a little while to get use to but now it's like the back of my hand. Lightweight wheels, Bilstein dampers and a cat back exhaust have made it the best I've owned.I think the people who designed it had a purpose that went beyond practical without going to far.

[Craig]

I work remotely and drive less than 5k miles a year. I love this car, passionately, but would have never bought it in a million years if I were still commuting every day. I drove a fourth gen for 13 years, and am amazed how a clean sheet design managed to not only retain but substantially worsen every practicality issue the f-body had.

[lowke]

I've gone 82k miles in 5 years

[Joshinator99]

Some great comments so far. I’ll agree that if I didn’t have other cars to drive, I couldn’t own a Camaro. I’m glad I do though.

[arpad_m]

One more thing I'd mention is GM's wont of complete abandonment instead of putting in tangible effort to improve any shortcomings, perceived or real, if only to show that they care about the customer and the brand.

Corporate apologists can show up here and say it wasn't worth it financially all day long, the truth is this shows exactly what they think of their customers, and it's that GM as a company doesn't give a shit. This is their norm, even though there are some pockets of excellence against the bleak backdrop, such as the Corvette or some Cadillac models that go against the grain.

GM isn't obliged to manufacture a Camaro, they don't owe us anything (okay, let's put the bailout aside for a second), but as long as they exude this "meh, we're not gonna even try" spirit and a sea of unimpressive, no risk and me-too vehicles, their portfolio is quite dissuasive.

If this is a recipe for success, as some will argue ("but look at their stock price and their latest revenue numbers"), then I want no part of that success. In my family's case, what this means is we had only GM vehicles for quite a while, but not since my Camaro that may well be the last one, mostly for this reason.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

No clue why when the Stang keeps selling like hot cakes. I had a 2021 LT1 and it was fine but the size was just too big for me coming from many Vettes. I lost my C7 in a cane last year and now just got a near 600hp EV6GT and again the size is hard to get used to. I way suck it up and find a used C7 Z06.

Mustang sales are currently tanking and have been for a while now. Mach E is now outselling it.

Annnnnnd everyone that confuses advertising and marketing, the Mustang also had no advertising. But its sales at now barely above the the Camaro when GM killed it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

One more thing I'd mention is GM's wont of complete abandonment instead of putting in tangible effort to improve any shortcomings, perceived or real, if only to show that they care about the customer and the brand.

Corporate apologists can show up here and say it wasn't worth it financially all day long, the truth is this is exaclty how shows what they think of their customers, and it's that GM as a company doesn't give a shit. This is their norm, even though there are some pockets of excellence against the bleak backdrop, such as the Corvette or some Cadillac models that go against the grain.

GM isn't obliged to manufacture a Camaro, they don't owe us anything (okay, let's put the bailout aside for a second), but as long as they exude this "meh, we're not gonna even try" spirit and a sea of unimpressive, no risk and me-too vehicles, their portfolio is quite dissuasive.

If this is a recipe for success, as some will argue ("but look at their stock price and their latest revenue numbers"), then I want no part of that success. In my family's case, what this means is we had only GM vehicles for quite a while, but not since my Camaro that may well be the last one, mostly for this reason.

The problem is the short comings required a new car. You can’t tweak a car to improve visibility, trunk space and rear seat room, the big 3. Now the ATS coupe had a bigger trunk, more rear seat leg room (traded off for rear seat head room) and slightly better visibility. But that would have been a big tear up.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The problem is the short comings required a new car. You can’t tweak a car to improve visibility, trunk space and rear seat room, the big 3. Now the ATS coupe had a bigger trunk, more rear seat leg room (traded off for rear seat head room) and slightly better visibility. But that would have been a big tear up.

Please don't tell me you can't design split taillights into an existing platform without tearing it up big. Come on now. I understand that you can't tweak the chassis for extra legroom, or maybe even lower the beltline (although that doesn't sound super difficult), but the trunk thing would've been an easy fix.

Then they could've shouted "look, we fixed the golf club issue" and "we listened, the Camaro's trunk is now x% more usable than the competition" and even "hey, our new camera mirror fixes the vast majority of visibility issues in this car" in relentlessly repeated short commercials, kind of what Dodge did with their brotherhood of muscle ad campaign. It costs a couple million bucks that they would've recouped with a few thousand extra annual sales.

...but then I'm sure we had this "argument" before and we will have to agree to disagree again, heh