[2023_ZL1-AUTO]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

I'm not sure anyone was taking a shot at Ted here.

I didn't think so either... No worries, but he originally posted and asked, so I wanted to give a bit or recognition !

[SOCAL.M6.ZLE]

Originally Posted by Patriot Motorsports USA

We have been tuning masses of cars with zero input data for two decades for OEM Manufacturers, Aftermarket Tuning Tool companies and for the past ten years three OEMs for spec ECUs in various racing organizations around the World. Sure they are softer with a few more safeguards, but the difference is we also have the test vehicles where we do take it to the absolute limit, where we do lean it out so it runs clean and we know the fuel isn't low grade or any other extenuating circumstance... that's my car and our Porsche GT3 RS & Cup cars. Finding these limitations also reveals how the teams can be cheating ECU data inputs as well, so when we scan logs or see failures, the cause is known and cannot be hidden from the manufacturer, the sanctioning body's tech inspectors or in past cases warranty fraud.

So far in my engine, at 34K miles total and 14,200 track... I have no blowby, no abnormal oil analysis data, notta-DT. Over a year ago we started this LT4 journey and did not make my car a FBO LT4, but we focused upon writing a tune that the engine would use matching the usage. I had a steep learning curve, tons of wasted $$$$ on parts that do not work, so I could share my experiences and the results good or bad. Some of our ideas are not the same as the norm or what has been done for the past 10 years the ZL1 has been available, so I get it when others fall back on the old adage’s "Its worked for years, why change now?" Well, my proof is in the miles, experience, and results... (so yes, the JLT IS better than the RotoFab) which I share freely with everyone, and Gabe will share this is true when we both make/sell/resell parts for others. I feel bad for his situation because he does have the same quest I do, to help others succeed, thus my offering of help to get his car running as it should.

Unrelated to the engine, a month ago I had spent a ton of money for an ALS Charity trackday weekend at VIR... I got in three laps before the transmission adapter to route fluid by a supplier failed. It has a 140º thermostat that fails in the CLOSED position, cutting off critical cooling at the time when you need it most. I contacted the company, didn't bash them online but rather called all my customers who we have installed this part and offered them the new billet part we make that has no thermostat. I've tested this part, on track and in 1000 more miles of road testing, to work flawlessly. We still do business with that previous manufacturer on other products, but it forced me to find a better solution for myself and our customers. Again, the rising tide raises all ships.

1. I would have bought the BMW... lighter, AWD and definitely easier to mod!
   
2. Wait... "Back & Forth..?" I think Gabe and I could have a contest on who can remove the bumper cover faster and re-install without losing any fasteners or stripping the torx screws!
   
3. OMG!! The parts shelves in my shop's storage room are full of parts that I bought, tested, cursed and had to start all over because they did not work! I'm on my fifth GM Oil Fill Tube right now!!
   
4. A Rising Tide Raises ALL SHIPS! Together we ALL WIN!! This is why I do this... I could be on the water in the Bahamas right now instead of fabbing parts from 6am til 8pm all day, then coming home to edit videos or write a new blog post to my website.
   
5. I'm still not completely sold on changing the cam right now as I am at the limit of what the tires can hold on the road course. I will definitely change the lifters, valve springs and use the Tx Speed roller tip rockers to reduce the friction on the valvestems. I love the monster torque my car makes off the corners and the PTM knows how to keep the eLSD in check so the application of power doesn't shred the tires. When I do build a new engine, it will be through LME in Houston as I have known their commitment to excellence for decades.
   
6. I ordered the rockers after our phone call... I won't have them installed by the weekend but I will before Daytona coming up. Definitely will seek to find if the upper RPMs are smoother since I am going to lighten the pushrods as well.

Ted, my brother and I did exactly as you said when we were tuning my car last year... we would let it drop below 2000 rpm and through the entire range, made changes by stabbing the throttle while loading the Mustang Dyno and unloading it to simulate traction loss in an effort to see if the PTM would kick in or we would have any timing pull to affect the torque to the tires. We were monitoring a lot of things. What's relevant to this conversation is that we were just then changing the oil pressure control to come in before 5,500 RPM and it would take nearly a full second for the gauge to respond. By 6,000 rpm the oil would swing to beyond 80psi by pegging the gauge. I think its quite critical to make sure this oil control is addressed when pushing these engines as hard as we do.

When we dyno the car, we do so in 7th gear (10L90E equivalent of M6 4th gear 1:1 ratio) and we pull all the way from the dig to simulate coming off the corner at Road Atlanta turn 7, pushing it all the way to 165+mph which is the back straight speed. We do these pulls, back to back without cool-downs so when we get to the track, 20-30 minutes of run time are a non-issue. We hammer the car on the dyno to see if the wheelspin reveals a knock or the disruption of the systems causes an intervention.

This video is a YEAR ago when developing our Oil Cooler Systems, ethanol blend and cooling upgrades. The car has 2.0" ARH headers, no cats, OEM NPP Suitcase, Brisk RR14S plugs, Katech wires, ATI Balancer with a 9.17" lower pulley and completely stock SC with the noise plate removed on the Baby RF airbox. The valve covers have never been off the car, she still has the stock cam and everything GM built it with. This is what you can get when you do not tune for soft, customers and looking for what can possibly fail, and yet... I have no bearing issues on the same OEM GM LT4. My engine builder Jerry (nametag on the engine... cannot remember his last name while typing this) must have had a great day!

HAHA, I love the #2 contest of who can remove the bumper faster HAHA... Granted I am working on jack stands.... I did time myself one day and got was 30min exactly, with no tools prepared.. time started when I broke the first lug nut loose an before jacking...

Every time I do it I remember someones comment about installing with magnets or clips to make it faster

[SOCAL.M6.ZLE]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Thank you for the kind words.

The market and technology is ever changing and we adapt very quickly.

My personal car is used for R&D like many others.

Utilizing the newest offerings here is my mod list

New GM complete crate engine.
CNC ported heads local machine shop
JRE 3 bolt Terminator 2 cam package which includes all valve train components and Ktech oil pump.
TSP VVT delete cover and 3 bolt gear.
TSP DOD delete Valley cover.
ATI superdamper with 9.55 lower
Jokerz race ported LT4 supercharger stock upper pulley
95mm LT5 TB
Rotofab big gulp.
DSX twin pump with second FSCM controlle by ECM.
Goliath HPFP.
XDI 70 over injectors.
DSX flex fuel sensor.
E-85 with head room for more power and more E
Kooks 2 inch LT with 3 inch X pipe to stock muffler.
Calibration with Hptuners

13 psi boost

855 RWHP
916 RWTQ.

Short list for a lot of power, Ultimate driveability, fuel economy and Too much power for Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2Rs

The engine is still outflowing the supercharger shown by the higher Torque than HP

This build was originally planned with a Maggie 2650 but when we did the project we ran out of 2650s Plus The Jokers ported blower was in stock and had rave reviews, so I thought it would be a good oportunity to see for my self how the new race porting would work.

Needless to say it exceeded my expectations, However I would not want to spin it any faster.

Great build list and numbers as always Mr. Ted...

may I ask; did you change compression? and why or why not"
also, did you do a valve job or replace the guides?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by SOCAL.M6.ZLE

Great build list and numbers as always Mr. Ted...

may I ask; did you change compression? and why or why not"
also, did you do a valve job or replace the guides?

Of coarse.

Did not change compression, the stock compression works well on low boost and pump gas.

Yes the valve job is part of the porting work, stock guides.

I suspect all of the wear you experienced can be traced back to valve springs.

[ZL1_1LE]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Of coarse.

Did not change compression, the stock compression works well on low boost and pump gas.

Yes the valve job is part of the porting work, stock guides.

I suspect all of the wear you experienced can be traced back to valve springs.

I'm assuming, that you think that this wear was due to a parts issue as opposed to a timing issue? A few other members had mentioned timing.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

I'm assuming, that you think that this wear was due to a parts issue as opposed to a timing issue? A few other members had mentioned timing.

2 Separate issues.

Answering Gabe, the question was about guide wear, cam wear which is likely linked to valve spring pressure installed height or both.

When you get any valve float it tears up all the moving parts including the cam.

The upper bearing wear is due to Detonation whether that was from low octane fuel or other contributing factors that lead to detonation is yet to be determined.

[ZL1_1LE]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

2 Separate issues.

Answering Gabe, the question was about guide wear, cam wear which is likely linked to valve spring pressure installed height or both.

When you get any valve float it tears up all the moving parts including the cam.

The upper bearing wear is due to Detonation whether that was from low octane fuel or other contributing factors that lead to detonation is yet to be determined.

I see, I'm just asking these questions because I'm about to have a cam installed and was hoping to not end up in the same predicament he is in. Although it sounds like it's pretty hit and miss.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

I see, I'm just asking these questions because I'm about to have a cam installed and was hoping to not end up in the same predicament he is in. Although it sounds like it's pretty hit and miss.

It is all about attention to details and quality of parts selected.

Things we do the most don't


Leak down test engine as recieved.
Tear down clean and inspect all parts
Lap deck,
Lap head surface
Measure every engine for pushrods.
Test valve springs out of the box
Check and set installed height.
Torque every bolt then paint mark it
Wash all parts so clean you can eat off them.
Heavy duty assembly lube.
New oil and filter before start up, then change the oil and filter after 1-2 heat cycles.
Cut the filters open to inspect for any metals

Not necessarily in that order but you get the point.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

It is all about attention to details and quality of parts selected.

Things we do the most don't


Leak down test engine as recieved.
Tear down clean and inspect all parts
Lap deck,
Lap head surface
Measure every engine for pushrods.
Test valve springs out of the box
Check and set installed height.
Torque every bolt then paint mark it
Wash all parts so clean you can eat off them.
Heavy duty assembly lube.
New oil and filter before start up, then change the oil and filter after 1-2 heat cycles.
Cut the filters open to inspect for any metals

Not necessarily in that order but you get the point.

All of this is the correct way to do things. I've done it like this many times and always have good success with engine longevity no matter how the customer would drive it.

[ZL1_1LE]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

All of this is the correct way to do things. I've done it like this many times and always have good success with engine longevity no matter how the customer would drive it.

Where is your shop located at? And what is the price point for a typical thorough install like this go for on average?

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

Where is your shop located at? And what is the price point for a typical thorough install like this go for on average?

I'm retired from the game and have been for a number of years now unfortunately.

[SOCAL.M6.ZLE]

Hey guys... lots going on this week just thought id update the group...

1. Monster Triple S just arrived, along with their aluminum flywheel...Who knew adding 50% more clamping force, could also result in a 17lb weight reduction?
2. Engine is being assembled as I type... going back to the builder tomorrow night for some final photos.

Lots happening all at once, stay tuned for more updates...

[SOCAL.M6.ZLE]

Oh, and a few more goodies from Katech...

[ZLRob]

Damn man. You sure got some pretty hardware going on there!