[ZL1_1LE]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

The fretting on the caps is concerning.

Would you like to try my new Terminator 2 cam with 32% lobe?

I believe it is exactly what you want.

Is this common or should be examined in low mileage examples like his? Or is this a one off. Now I am a bit worried.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

Is this common or should be examined in low mileage examples like his? Or is this a one off. Now I am a bit worried.

It is common when there is detonation present.

We have never had a problem with that in the engines we tune or build.

I might not have the highest dyno numbers but my stuff lives.

I say it all the time, we don't chase numbers, we make the engine happy.

[SOCAL.M6.ZLE]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

Is this common or should be examined in low mileage examples like his? Or is this a one off. Now I am a bit worried.

Thats a great question... my builder mentioned several possible contributing factors. If memory serves me correct, he said...

A: Might be too much timing down low at peak torque.
B: Might have been an Oil Film Issue (although I use 5W-50W Amsoil now, I did not the entire 8350 miles)
C: GM OEM Inconsistencies + Crappy OEM Bearings.

I will get a formal response from him this week, but thats what I remember him saying. We just started ramping in the oil pressure earlier with boost, so that along with better bearings and better assembly tolerances should help moving forward.

The valve guide wear was terrible for only 8350 miles, although my tuner said he had seen much worse...

[ZL1_1LE]

Originally Posted by SOCAL.M6.ZLE

Thats a great question... my builder mentioned several possible contributing factors. If memory serves me correct, he said...

A: Might be too much timing down low at peak torque.
B: Might have been an Oil Film Issue (although I use 5W-50W Amsoil now, I did not the entire 8350 miles)
C: GM OEM Inconsistencies + Crappy OEM Bearings.

I will get a formal response from him this week, but thats what I remember him saying. We just started ramping in the oil pressure earlier with boost, so that along with better bearings and better assembly tolerances should help moving forward.

The valve guide wear was terrible for only 8350 miles, although my tuner said he had seen much worse...

I thought I read a couple of members on here mentioning they were trying to steer you into a better direction with the timing of your previous tune but you didn't want to stray from what the previous tuner had done. Hopefully you've moved on from that tuner and into the arms of one that isn't as jannety said "chasing numbers".....unless of course I am completely off base here then disregard lol

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by SOCAL.M6.ZLE

The valve guide wear was terrible for only 8350 miles, although my tuner said he had seen much worse...

It seems like that is such a craps shoot. Mine were really tight at 20-something thousand miles. I was going to add that service to my head porting, but when I disassembled them, they were very snug with no hour glass shape. I was a little surprised they weren't odd-shaped, honestly. The bearing wear really blows, though.

[SOCAL.M6.ZLE]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

It seems like that is such a craps shoot. Mine were really tight at 20-something thousand miles. I was going to add that service to my head porting, but when I disassembled them, they were very snug with no hour glass shape. I was a little surprised they weren't odd-shaped, honestly. The bearing wear really blows, though.

I agree... builder said all of the exhaust valves were worn, and all of the upper rod bearings were bad... main bearings looked fine. Doing a full valve job, new guides and roller tip rockers to keep the valves straighter for longer.
The guides wear on the same direction that the rocker is pushing them... he said that is the driving issue. Katech has also posted a video about excessive guide wear in very low mile engines.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Gives me a little more time to work on my new E85 / Fuel line set up... more on that soon

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by SOCAL.M6.ZLE

I agree... builder said all of the exhaust valves were worn, and all of the upper rod bearings were bad... main bearings looked fine. Doing a full valve job, new guides and roller tip rockers to keep the valves straighter for longer.
The guides wear on the same direction that the rocker is pushing them... he said that is the driving issue. Katech has also posted a video about excessive guide wear in very low mile engines.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Gives me a little more time to work on my new E85 / Fuel line set up... more on that soon

Interested to see that setup. All of that is going under the passenger floorboard on mine. Into the filter, then into the flex sensor/bypass block, then onward to the engine. Was going to put the flex/bypass in the fender well in place of the washer fluid tank, but didn't like my mock up, so just decided to throw it all under the car with heat shielding.

[Smokin19]

Originally Posted by SOCAL.M6.ZLE

Thats a great question... my builder mentioned several possible contributing factors. If memory serves me correct, he said...

A: Might be too much timing down low at peak torque.
B: Might have been an Oil Film Issue (although I use 5W-50W Amsoil now, I did not the entire 8350 miles)
C: GM OEM Inconsistencies + Crappy OEM Bearings.

I will get a formal response from him this week, but thats what I remember him saying. We just started ramping in the oil pressure earlier with boost, so that along with better bearings and better assembly tolerances should help moving forward.

The valve guide wear was terrible for only 8350 miles, although my tuner said he had seen much worse...

Never a fan of Amsoil after two Harley engine builds I did for two friends. Crank and rod bearings were toast. They switched oil and never had a problem.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

Never a fan of Amsoil after two Harley engine builds I did for two friends. Crank and rod bearings were toast. They switched oil and never had a problem.

So what did he wind up switching to?

I started using Valvoline EP on my truck and it seems like it's been great.

[2023_ZL1-AUTO]

OH SH... I just started using Amsoil. The good thing, my only oil change using Amsoil only had 300 miles, until the car went to Katech where they obviously drained the oil and will be putting in what ever the manufacture recommends.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

Never a fan of Amsoil after two Harley engine builds I did for two friends. Crank and rod bearings were toast. They switched oil and never had a problem.

We appreciate you sharing your experience with Amsoil.

Where you running this https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-20w-...saAri6EALw_wcB

However I am skeptical that the oil had anything to do with the failure.

Crank finish and bearing clearences, Connecting rod, main journal stability tuning, fuel quality, fuel delution, contamination from other wearing parts, filtration, are all places where I would be looking for cause of failure.

If everything is right you can run Kmart oil.

Amsoil is the number one synthetic oil available.

We have been using it in all of our builds for over 20 years.

Joe Gibbs for initial break in, Valvoline VR1 for secondary break in then Amsoil for life.

We pull down our enigines that make 1200 Plus HP and the bearings look like they cam out of the box, it is all in the above Items mentioned.

An oil analysis would be a key component in Identifying the cause of failure.

Always open to hearing your evidence.

[KingLT1]

Option C is plausible. I doubt it was B. Any decent synthetic works fine. far as A, Would have to see the latest tune to say if timing was the culprit. My guess would be whatever that was going on in the top end of the motor made its way into the bottom end and beat up the bearings.

[Joshinator99]

I’ll go with A based on previous discussion about timing. My second and third guesses are A, and also A.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

Water.

Did you get a chance to test the Ridetech on the highway before you pulled the engine?

Nah... GM Specifies 0W-40 oil that is as THIN as Water, or at least Skim Milk so THEY can pass EPA certifications without one care of the consumers using these cars for what they were designed to do!

Gabe and I had quite a lengthy discussion earlier today, so I will let him elaborate on the points I brought up as well as his revelations as I believe his focus now is in the right direction.

These rod bearings look like another Mobil1 low mileage failure and exactly what I have seen on several others running the Dexos/Walmart spec junk. However, you can have the best oil & Katech pump in the world... or as Ted says, KMart oil... but if the rods are not getting enough oil to create a pressurized film to glide upon due to restrictions by the oil pump pressure control valve, its probably damage that has been there before he changed it's tuning for the peripheral system upgrades. Its probably a good thing Gabe hasn't tested those RideTech Coil-overs at the track or it could have scattered the block too.

As for using Amsoil in a Harley... I'm just going to say that's the most remote excuse for an oil-related failure possible. I mean... any vehicle that determines the presence of oil by the leaky spot beneath it, is disqualified.

I have been conducting the most abusive tests on my car for over a year, and have tried multiple different oils to see the validity of claims from Mobil1, Shell Rotella T6 and always go back to Amsoil Racing 15w50. Even though GM says I need to run 0w40 for the best MPGs... thats for their EPA BS. I can still hit 28mpg on the HWY with the same oil I track the car with.

As for my cam selection, the BTR Stage-1 with the SpinTron matched components is the only change I would make away from the stock cam for Road Racing... Anything else is just for show, dynos and WOT drag racing.