[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZL1_1LE

But I thought the issue was that his new valve body separator plate wasn't correct from the new one he purchased and now he has to wait months for a new one. Unless I'm completely wrong which is probably the case lol.

Only to be clear (and not discourage anyone from doing this) of where I, personally, am with this:

I, still, haven't checked my original separator plate. If it is, still, good, I can reuse it, per NGD. However, if it is not, there's some amount of research I'd have to do to see if anyone else out there produces a stock replacement plate. I see there are several transmission parts supplies that sell these, but I haven't reached out to see if they have any that match mine. In the event I'd need a new plate, and there are no compatible replacements, I'd then be at the complete mercy of anyone who's got one in development. I'm not suggesting anything else.

I don't remember if I said it, but it'd just be easier (if I have said it already) to (re)post now: NGD (Tyler) had stated, quite clearly and repeatedly, that their separator plate (the ones they do have available) is NOT absolutely necessary for the job. The separator plate (there are 3-plates in total, and Tyler has confirmed the other 2 are completely fine, in spite of the "Cover Plate" (the middle, if you will) having differing holes than my OEM one) was only offered as a supplementary-stiffening article because of all the machining/scalloping/weight-reducing-shaping of the OEM valve body (VB) halves. The additional plates NGD offers (the third plate is for the auxillary VB) are there to better seal and help stiffen the OEM VB. The alloy they use for these plates help to conform to irregularities in the surfaces of the mating surfaces to allow for gasket-less sealing and just reinforce the assembly better. Tyler added there is not a lot of examples of failures of the OEM sealing surfaces, but it does happen, and they figured they have the engineering to improve the design. There are also some changes to the passages in their plates that eliminate unnecessary circuits in the OEM design. Part of the reason I have repeated some of MY statements is because I don't know what circuits are or are not necessary, and don't pretend to suggest to anyone I do, so I'm going by whom I consider the experts, and this far, NGD haven't steered me wrong.

So yeah - after they reviewed the differences from my OEM VB to the existing one NGD offers, they concluded it won't work and a new one had to be engineered for this application. Their primary market has been truck trannys, and it sounds like they're beginning to get more car business and weren't expecting these kind of differences. I'm just glad we caught it. Hopefully that's helpful. And - they'll refund me for the plate that doesn't work, if I return it. Again - my plan is to try to give it a couple months, and if there's progress with their development, I'll extend the time until I just reuse what I have (if it's still useable).

[Gunkk]

My vote:

Do the NGD valve upgrades and reinstall your original separator plate, and return the NGD plate for your money back. And go drive and enjoy your car.

When NGD makes the new plate, install it and drive and enjoy your car.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

My vote:

Do the NGD valve upgrades and reinstall your original separator plate, and return the NGD plate for your money back. And go drive and enjoy your car.

When NGD makes the new plate, install it and drive and enjoy your car.

I'd post a picture, but of the differences I can find between the two, it's a matter of only a handful of holes, and holes, honestly, I could do myself... lol... That's not a good idea...

I respect and understand that vote, which is what everyone is saying, lol

If anything, I think I'll be, at least, installing the valve over the weekend. I'll try to take some pics', but it's going to be messy, so I'm not promising too much.

[radz28]

OH. For the record: I keep saying the middle plate is different. IT IS NOT. I had been only looking a pics of the gasket side (it's a long story). The GASKET is different - NOT THE PLATE.

I needed to correct my statements.

[ZL1Atlanta]

I can only speak for how I use the car, which is drag racing, but I can confirm the valve body wasn't the limiting factor for achieving our goals. That said, I recommend a new valve body for a 10L90 rebuild, at least if the previous build was showing metal in the fluid. Pure is working on valve body upgrades like they have for the ZF stuff, but that's less about seeing them being a limiting factor so far and more about wanting to enable a 10L90 of handling well above what anyone has to date.

[radz28]

Hmm...

Because I'm a fool, disagreeable, and impatient, I'm wondering if there is a faster, and effective solution. I've evaluated the differences in the separator plates many times now, and am confident in my findings, so I'm wondering if I'm missing anything, and would welcome comments as to if they think I am. I don't know if I need to be asking questions that I don't know I should ask, so I'm reaching out to see if anyone else might have insight that I'm missing.

I'm attaching an image of my OEM separator plate. I used a bad choice of color to circle the 3-holes that are not present in the NGD plate. Out of respect for them (and since I didn't ask, too), I'm not going to post that picture (it seems like there's a chance of proprietary stuff they've done that I don't want to share without their permission), but the holes that I'm missing (and it's only these that are missing - there are no additional holes or weirdly shaped ones) are, simply, these. Unless I'm crazy, I'm VERY temped to duplicate these myself! I cannot fathom why that would be a problem, as long as I don't mess that up, but what am I missing?

I can foresee drilling a pilot hole for each. Then, grind away the openings to match the transfer template from the OEM plate. Finally - finish the edges smooth. WHAT AM I MISSING?... I have, for the record, reached out to a professional to see what they think, an will, make sure to take that into serious account, too, FWIW, so I'm not doing this blindly.

To reiterate - these three holes are THE ONLY differences. Why couldn't I add them to the new separator plate?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

I can only speak for how I use the car, which is drag racing, but I can confirm the valve body wasn't the limiting factor for achieving our goals. That said, I recommend a new valve body for a 10L90 rebuild, at least if the previous build was showing metal in the fluid. Pure is working on valve body upgrades like they have for the ZF stuff, but that's less about seeing them being a limiting factor so far and more about wanting to enable a 10L90 of handling well above what anyone has to date.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POPPING IN!!! It sounds like you've, essentially, just confirmed what Josh' was saying earlier. Thank you for sharing your input!!! I'm, certainly, not approaching anything close to the limits, and use this more for drag racing than anything else, too. This is just my dream car and keeper, so I invest in permanent/long-term mods' for reliability and longevity.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by radz28

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POPPING IN!!! It sounds like you've, essentially, just confirmed what Josh' was saying earlier. Thank you for sharing your input!!! I'm, certainly, not approaching anything close to the limits, and use this more for drag racing than anything else, too. This is just my dream car and keeper, so I invest in permanent/long-term mods' for reliability and longevity.

Sure thing. Another important point is that we proactively swap transmissions if something seems off, or to just have it inspected to see how frictions, steels, etc. are aging. I keep a spare for that purpose. Everything has a limited life span and it's much shorter at 1400+ WHP, so I like to make every pass count if possible. Being a little proactive helps there. Maybe if we didn't do that we'd find something with the longevity of the valve body.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Sure thing. Another important point is that we proactively swap transmissions if something seems off, or to just have it inspected to see how frictions, steels, etc. are aging. I keep a spare for that purpose. Everything has a limited life span and it's much shorter at 1400+ WHP, so I like to make every pass count if possible. Being a little proactive helps there. Maybe if we didn't do that we'd find something with the longevity of the valve body.

Interesting, and makes sense after you've pointed that out. I'm not racing (I didn't express that right earlier) but like to go to the strip. I've seen other racers say that, too, about making every pass count, especially when the car's on the edge. I'm NO WHERE close to that power, so I'm sure I'm not close to a shorter lifespan like your powertrain, but I completely understand your point.

Thank you again for taking your time to share your knowledge and experience!

[radz28]

Something else to add, for anyone thinking about cooling mods'.

There are some 10L' applications where there is a tranny cooler bypass modification. What I've seen are truck applications, wherein the inlet/outlet hose flange is a large block that contains a removable thermostat. While I haven't removed mine, I took a lot of time, feeling around the entirety of the block/flange and do not notice any openings like would be found for a bypass or thermostat. There are what seem like 3-holes: inlet, outlet, and fastener to the transmission case. There doesn't seem to be a modification for this application.

This is addressed in the NGD kit, however, which is what I'll be doing, too, just as Rod' talked about in the recall thread. It's just a removal/reversal-type procedure, so I look forward to that.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by radz28

Ugh... very disheartening...

Not only can I NOT get a replacement OEM separator plate (mine seems okay to reuse, but I'd prefer not to), because GM doesn't list it as serviceable (to which I think Tyler did tell me - I have confirmed with my GM parts guy though), I'd have to get a whole valve body... Seriously?... Definitely the last GM car I buy - at least one produced within the last 10-years.

Getting into the wet weather, I'm not going to drive it much anyways, and I'd rather not put it back together, only to take it apart later for this plate, and fix it until it's broke - which is my typical work method. So - I'm going to try to give it a couple months, as long as they continue to try to develop one. Tyler tells me they intend to, but this is a brand new project, and there are others in the works already, so he could not (reasonably) give me a good idea how long this process will yield a sellable product to me.

So - my current plan is to do a good inspection on my existing separator plate, just for peace of mind in case I feel the need to put it back together without NGD's yet-to-be-developed-separator-plate. I have all the valves, and confirmed my installation instructions, so I'm going to install all of those, and loosely put the valve body back together, only such that I can place it in the tranny pan, and loosely reinstall it under the car. I just bought a set of wheel dollies and intend on placing the car on them, and wheel him over to his side of the garage so my better half can park inside, as usual. I'll give that a couple months, and if progress continues at a reasonable pace (IMHO), I might extend it. I'm not going to drive it in weather anyways, and the less I mess with it, the better.

So - that's where I'm at for now. I'll update with any progress updates as I get any in a month or two. I'm trying to recall if I had anything helpful to share otherwise, that Rod hadn't already, but he did an OUTSTANDING job already, so I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm suggesting otherwise.

Yeah - my car was produced on 07/29/19, so I'd have an early ZL1, not a ZLE. I didn't want to take much of my parts guys' time, so I didn't ask how many versions there are, but GM stated in the ZLE release the pan and programming differences. I couldn't confirm many other mechanical differences (so far as the A10 goes), but I know there are others in the powertrain and chassis. I noted many different shaped holes, missing holes, additional holes, and such. BUT - I wouldn't know if they affected actual operation. I offered to send my separator plate to Tyler for reference, too, but didn't get a response, which is fine. They have my pictures.

I have watched those videos several times to try to understand the flow path of the fluid, because I have both the electric pump Rod' used and a MOTIVE pressure pump I'm going to try, first, with the standpipe fill procedure. I did see the plug you referenced, though, so I might modify an allen wrech to fit and use that, but I like that I can pressurize the MOTIVE pump and add fluid while I attempt to drain from the oil cooler, as Rod' did. That's a bit a ways away, but your video DEFINITELY helped better understand what I might need to consider and do! I have to add that drain plug, too, before I forget, lol.

THANKS AGAIN FOR ADDING YOUR COMMENTS HERE!!! They're going to be helpful for me and anyone else. This is NOT that hard a job, honestly. It took longer to set the car up on jack stands than it did to drop the valve body.

An excellent way to view things, IMVHO!!!

If I recall, part of what GM advertised for the ZLE package (specifically for the A10 models in '19) was different programming and the ability for the TCM to hold upshifts out for longer. Not higher RPMs, but for a longer time period, before an upshift. E.G. if you were to lift off the throttle, coming into a corner, rather than the tranny upshifting to a lower gear because you came off the throttle, it would hold the same gear anticipating you getting back on the throttle after the corner. Maybe they used G-force logic for this, as the car would know the G's going into the corner, and see that you were in the corner, so it would hold that gear for longer, anticipating you getting right back on the throttle as soon as the G's started letting up. They probably used the steering wheel sensor, too, in these extrapolations

BROTHER... Have FAITH!!


I received an email from Tyler this morning to confirm they are going ALL-IN to provide us the best of what they can for our ZL1s and the ZLE platforms. I sent him the info on the different RPO codes, the technical data from the GM Chief Engineer I have been communicating with for the past year while developing the parts I have... and between Tyler and Nate, I believe they CAN DO IT!!

SO... as soon as I get caught up this week with production parts, I will remove my entire valve-body and ship it to NGD for their updates, scans and modification. I will then take the car back to our shop in ATL, run it on the dyno to capture shifting data and send them live logs to follow along. I have also reached out to HPTuners and will be getting feedback to make any programming adjustments necessary, but as Tyler explains everything... the fixes are to eliminate the mechanical aspects that cause the damage to appease the "Slush Junkies" in Marketing, not the actual Racing Engineers who just "Wanna Go Fast!!"

I also confirmed with GM Performance the ZLE 10L90E DOES have a higher torque rating and is referred to as the "SuperMatic 10L90E" for it's factory-rated torque capacity of up to 715 lb-ft in the Camaro ZL1 1LE. The SuperMatic 10L90, available from Chevrolet Performance in the ZL1 is officially rated for 650 lb-ft of torque. The 10L90E version features reinforced internal components in stronger clutches and larger planetary gears.

More info from my contact:

Transmission (10L90E)
Higher-RPM shifting: The software programming commands upshifts to occur at higher engine speeds, keeping the 650-hp supercharged LT4 engine in its optimal powerband for longer and up to the actual rev limit.

Faster and more precise shifts: The calibration enables extremely quick and accurate shifts that reduce lap times compared to a manual transmission.

Full rev-matching: Under "normal" driving conditions in Track Mode, the transmission's rev-matching capability applies to all upshifts and downshifts

Electronic Limited-Slip Differential (eLSD)
Track-specific programming: The eLSD is tuned to work in concert with the 1LE's other electronic systems. The calibration is more aggressive to ensure maximum traction and stability, especially during cornering.

Controlled rotation: Some Track Mode subsystems allow less intrusive electronic stability control (ESC) and more willingly allow the rear of the car to rotate, which a skilled driver can use to their advantage on the track. This is and has been the most difficult learning process, to "UN-LEARN all that I have trained myself in conventional race cars and the true reason why GM Corvette Engineers drove the cars at Nurburgring and not "Seasoned Pros" who do not use the future of Nannies to do what humans cannot duplicate with mere hands and feet alone.

Performance Traction Management (PTM)
Multiple sub-modes: Within the ZL1 1LE's Track Mode, there are multiple PTM sub-modes (e.g., Track Sport 1, Track Sport 2, Track Race) that progressively reduce the level of electronic intervention from traction and stability control.

Higher limits: The intervention limits are increased to allow a greater degree of wheel slip and yaw (rotation) compared to the standard ZL1, letting a driver push the car closer to its limits. This specifically is what I noticed while following a prepped ZL1 on track, I would have to back out of the WOT/PTM to stay a safe distance from this car on track.

[radz28]

Couple quick notes:

* Both new feed valves go in pretty tough, in that the seals put up a good fight
* Cooler bypass valve is not the same on each face so it’s easy to figure out how to install
* shift valves glide in and fall out under gravity not problem

Going to use the stock separator plate, most likely. Going back in a second time will exchange more of the old fluid, enabling more fresh fluid, so that’s not going to be a bad thing. I COULD, pretty much, duplicate the missing orifices in NGD’s plate, but maybe an improvement in the new one might find it’s way into it, so I’ll be patient.

All new valves seem to go in in fine, as expected. While ai haven’t had time to assess the OEM valves quiet yet, there were NO signs of excess wear that I noticed so far.

Maybe a better update tomorrow…

[2023_ZL1-AUTO]

All I can say is WOW ! You are a much smart guy than I am! WAY TO KEEP AT IT !

[radz28]

And there's more than one aluminum-type bolt that's stretching... yay...