[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Counterpoint: I don't give a darn either way. I can't afford either one, and I'm never going to drive on the 'Ring. I don't know Misha personally, nor do I claim to know everything about everything. Both are cool cars. If you gave me either one of them, I'd take it happily and enjoy the heck out of it. I do think it's cool that 2 US brands are both under 7 minutes on that track, though.

Agreed!

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Besides, if you have to sink money into a $350K-$400K car, something is wrong lol

C'mon... be fair. How many people you know have that much in a car right now? On the 5th engine, 10-transmission, ripped out the last mini-tubs for a full chassis back-half...???

[AZ_1LE]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Still not a pro.

I see this all the time with people on the track. They think if YOU can do it, so can I! WRONG, wrong and more wrong. You can't "do it" if you haven't put in the time to develop your skills and if you don't have aptitude.

This is like saying the dude who managed Jordan brand shoes would kick MJ's ass at his prime.

A Pro driver is a professional athlete just like any other and the thought anyone who hasn't put their entire f&*ing life into driving, and is genetically gifted on top of that, has any chance whatsoever is simply absurd. You're not as good and you're not as fast.

This is why the top pros who drive F1 cars make massive salaries. If they were a dime a dozen this wouldn't happen, but for *whatever* reason they're not easily replaceable.

The very same folks take one side of this and say a Chevy engineer, who may in fact be a top amateur driver and even approaching a lower level pro, has driven the ZR1 as quick as it can go are cheering for Max to drive the GTD. And these folks, most who have never even been to the Nurb let alone drove it, think Misha's analysis is garbage. Based on what? Your feelings?

This topic has brought out the most horrific kluge of dumba$$ery, ignorance and bias I have ever seen. If covid brought out all the wanna-be virologists, this topic has brought out similar "experts" on driving.

Yes because you know better than GM who spent tens of thousands for just that one track rental to throw a guy in the car who couldn't drive the shit out of it and then post a time they're very proud of. Makes total sense. I've worked in professional motorsports for a decade, the guy was pushing that car to near it's limits. A pro might be able to get 3-5 seconds more out of it, max. It's not like it'll be a 30 second difference.

Again, GM fanboys hanging off of the "put a pro in it!!111!" and what Misha said (I know who he is, and still ) is fun to watch. I want to see what the GTD can do around a regular track like the Glen, Laguna, or VIR.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Patriot Motorsports USA

C'mon... be fair. How many people you know have that much in a car right now? On the 5th engine, 10-transmission, ripped out the last mini-tubs for a full chassis back-half...???

I’m not QUITE at that point…yet…

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by AZ_1LE

Yes because you know better than GM who spent tens of thousands for just that one track rental to throw a guy in the car who couldn't drive the shit out of it and then post a time they're very proud of. Makes total sense. I've worked in professional motorsports for a decade, the guy was pushing that car to near it's limits. A pro might be able to get 3-5 seconds more out of it, max. It's not like it'll be a 30 second difference.

Again, GM fanboys hanging off of the "put a pro in it!!111!" and what Misha said (I know who he is, and still ) is fun to watch. I want to see what the GTD can do around a regular track like the Glen, Laguna, or VIR.

I can push to the limits and still somehow be much slower than a reasonably competent driver with a lot more experience. It means very little...

If you actually listen to Misha's analysis it's clear that he's making a lot of mistakes, which will happen on the Nurb until you have hundreds of laps down or are a real pro. It's also clear he's taking conservative lines and rarely using curbs. His estimate is 10s faster for a pro who knows the track, he says and shows exactly why, corner by corner. If you think he's wrong, what exactly do you base that on?

GM should be proud of their accomplishment, they basically beat Ford with one hand tied behind their back.

[Camfab]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Counterpoint: I don't give a darn either way. I can't afford either one, and I'm never going to drive on the 'Ring. I don't know Misha personally, nor do I claim to know everything about everything. Both are cool cars. If you gave me either one of them, I'd take it happily and enjoy the heck out of it. I do think it's cool that 2 US brands are both under 7 minutes on that track, though.

This!!!

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Cardiak

I was wondering if the Camaro/GM fan club would try to find a way to validate the ZLE or ZR1 over the GTD in track performance. The ZLE stands no chance no matter what mods are done. It already has trouble putting down the same power that the GTD comes with. It's not very glued to the track at that power level. The GTD apparently makes more downforce than the ZR1 so it should be MORE capable on smaller/technical tracks. The impressive thing to me was how the GTD managed to have a higher average speed with so much less power and much more weight.

I would have to disagree here that the ZLE stands no chance regardless of mods. I'm running a 2650 with a tune and 95mm throttle body -- basically mimicking the C7 ZR1 setup. I have absolutely no doubt that if GM would have put the LT5 in the ZLE along with a stickier tire (Cup2R) it would have been the first American sub 7-minute Nurburgring car. I could realistically see a 6:57 - 6:59 lap time. There's no reason to believe that it would not be within spitting distance of the GTD. My track data shows that the Mag2650 is worth 1-2 tenths on every single corner exit.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

If you actually listen to Misha's analysis it's clear that he's making a lot of mistakes, which will happen on the Nurb until you have hundreds of laps down or are a real pro. It's also clear he's taking conservative lines and rarely using curbs. His estimate is 10s faster for a pro who knows the track, he says and shows exactly why, corner by corner. If you think he's wrong, what exactly do you base that on?

Unfortunately it's not so black and white as Misha makes it sound. While he is very experienced on the Nurburgring, he's not so experienced with American cars on the limit. A Porsche can certainly jump those curbs and not upset the chassis while taking those aggressive lines. Whereas the ZR1, or Z06 for that matter are a totally different ballgame entirely and probably wouldn't tolerate curbing as well as the Porsches that Misha is used to driving. I've got hundreds of track miles chasing Porsches, and NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING under the sun takes a curbing better than a GT3/GT3RS.


For reference... Lars Kern is a Pro driver. Both ZR1 development drivers beat Lars' GT2 RS Ring time of 6:51

While they don't hold the title of "Pro", to think that GM's development drivers aren't Pro level is just being naive. They literally broke 5 lap records across the USA with the car.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Cardiak

Sure, but this goes beyond the Ring. It's so easy to get more power out of the Predator so I can't imagine the typical GTD owner that shows up for track days will be running on stock power. A few hundred dollars in bolt ons (pocket change for the people that can afford one) will have them faster than the average ZR1 driver. Both cars are impressive to say the least.

Your typical "GTD Owner" won't show up for track days, but he'll be happy to show you the car in his garage, or at a car show.

[MisterMarauder]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

If you HAD to have a Mustang, and had that much to spend I'd buy this one for cheaper. I think it looks better, too.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/2026-s...-for-100k-less

And that is also grossly overpriced. It's a badge and supercharger special. It's not worth the premium.

[MisterMarauder]

Originally Posted by Sweet Emotion

Now that GTD videos/contents are out, what are everyone's thoughts about it vs the ZL1/1LE?

Despite the extensive effort by Ford - it is still 650lbs or so heavier than the ZL1/1LE.

Not to mention the price tag being north of $350,000.

One is a mass production sports car that punches well above its weight.

The other is a bespoke limited-edition road legal version of the GT3 car that costs 5x as much.

I don't see them being comparable.

[Cardiak]

Originally Posted by NG329

I would have to disagree here that the ZLE stands no chance regardless of mods. I'm running a 2650 with a tune and 95mm throttle body -- basically mimicking the C7 ZR1 setup. I have absolutely no doubt that if GM would have put the LT5 in the ZLE along with a stickier tire (Cup2R) it would have been the first American sub 7-minute Nurburgring car. I could realistically see a 6:57 - 6:59 lap time. There's no reason to believe that it would not be within spitting distance of the GTD. My track data shows that the Mag2650 is worth 1-2 tenths on every single corner exit.

Once again, it's not all about the power. I'm speaking more about how much mechanical grip the GTD has over these cars. I don't think giving the ZLE the LT5 would have put it under 7 mins. Even the C7 didn't achieve that.

[Cardiak]

Triple post.

[Cardiak]

Originally Posted by clg82

Your typical "GTD Owner" won't show up for track days, but he'll be happy to show you the car in his garage, or at a car show.

That's why I said the typical one that DOES show up for track days. There will be some there and I'd bet a lot will have a little more juice knowing they may run into a ZR1.