[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

I've been wrenching on engines professionally and as a hobby on the side for long enough to feel like an old dinosaur now with at least 20+ years under my belt. I've picked up A TON of knowledge along the way and I continue to learn something new everyday. Being a student of life and being receptive to understanding that you may not always have all the answers allows you to expand your own personal horizons and break down previous mental barriers about certain topics you may have previously had.

The Gen V platform is a tricky one to learn even for a experienced mechanic/ tuner. It's a miracle that these cars even run given how intricately complex they are both internally and externally. I'll be the first to admit that I felt a little in over my head at first, but once I fully committed to understanding it better, it started making more sense. This is especially true about the DI system (both mechanical and electrical) and the torque based tuning that GM switched over to on HPTuners.

That being said, once you have a general grasp of how different these engines are over their Gen III and Gen IV counterparts, you still have to remember that basic engine theory still pertains to this stuff. It's all about efficiency and maximizing airflow. That applies to everything equipped on it from the air to water cooling set ups that we have, cam sizing, and supercharger port jobs. If you overdo airflow or flow in general on any particular facet of these engines you will disturb the delicate balance of performance that these are tuned for and lose either throttle response, low end torque, powerband torque, horsepower up top or introduce overheating issues.

Some folks are okay with these losses and have their cars as dedicated track toys. There is a certain compromise that comes with setting up things certain ways. In other words, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I've always targeted in having a well balanced everyday driven street toy/ weapon. It's how I have built all of my setups and they perform very well.

I love the TVS2650 Magnuson blower, but that blower was not specifically blueprinted to work with our set ups and the fact that it moves as much air as it does requires modifications to your blower pulley setup and tune itself to overcome some of the difficulties that moving all that additional airflow presents.

I wouldn't run one on mine for a few reasons, one being emissions compliance. I do live in a state where that's a very real thing and running something like a 2650 is not allowed due to lack of certifications. The second being that these engines can and some do suffer from lack of punchiness down low which is not my ideal situation. I want power everywhere. I could go on and on but I think you get the idea at this point.

TLDR: make your LT4 as efficient and as cool as possible. Don't overspin your blower unless you have meth injection, and understand that during your build, the ideal scenario involves you (or whoever is spec'ing out things) using supporting mods which compliment and help your major mods function better or properly.

I only ask, because I'm not trying to take anything away from what's being said, but what state? As far as I understand, CA is the worst, and Magnuson (and Whipple and Edelbrock for that matter) has CARB-exemption. That should, as far as I know, cover ANY state (I'm assuming you live in the US). You get a CARB-tune, and everything.

I only wanted to clarify for anyone interested or that didn't know. It took them forever because of crap CARB pulled on them, from the beginning of the 2650 certification process.

I appreciate that we have the options we do. To each their own, with interests.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by radz28

I only ask, because I'm not trying to take anything away from what's being said, but what state? As far as I understand, CA is the worst, and Magnuson (and Whipple and Edelbrock for that matter) has CARB-exemption. That should, as far as I know, cover ANY state (I'm assuming you live in the US). You get a CARB-tune, and everything.

I only wanted to clarify for anyone interested or that didn't know. It took them forever because of crap CARB pulled on them, from the beginning of the 2650 certification process.

I appreciate that we have the options we do. To each their own, with interests.

He lives in California and insists he just had it smogged.

I asked him to send me "his guy" and he said he didn't need one. Just pulled up, had it smogged (i'm assuming visually and the sniff test) and passed with flying colors. Was trying to find someone you could use when yours comes time to smog

Side note, can't believe it's been 2 years since CARB approval for the 2650 now....

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by radz28

I only ask, because I'm not trying to take anything away from what's being said, but what state? As far as I understand, CA is the worst, and Magnuson (and Whipple and Edelbrock for that matter) has CARB-exemption. That should, as far as I know, cover ANY state (I'm assuming you live in the US). You get a CARB-tune, and everything.

I only wanted to clarify for anyone interested or that didn't know. It took them forever because of crap CARB pulled on them, from the beginning of the 2650 certification process.

I appreciate that we have the options we do. To each their own, with interests.

If the 2650 is indeed now CARB certified then that is AWESOME! I have not been following that because my plan was always to keep the 1.7L, especially after finding out at the time they were not approved yet.

I agree. I love that we have as many options that we do. It helps us preserve our platform and allows us flexibility to get things done the way we exclusively envision them.

The only time that I will ever tell anyone that they did their setup wrong is if it doesn't work. If their stuff is a slayer at their respective power level though, I love it for them and will give them all of the flowers they deserve.

Originally Posted by clg82

He lives in California and insists he just had it smogged.

I asked him to send me "his guy" and he said he didn't need one. Just pulled up, had it smogged (i'm assuming visually and the sniff test) and passed with flying colors. Was trying to find someone you could use when yours comes time to smog

Side note, can't believe it's been 2 years since CARB approval for the 2650 now....

Their test involves hooking up to the OBD2 connector and doing a visual inspection. A sniffer test only applies to MY 2001 and older vehicles.

Yeah, sorry, I am of no help to anyone in locating "a guy." I plotted out my build to work within the constraints of the OE platform and general hardware.

[radz28]

OK. I thought you were in CA, but wasn't sure.

It seems to me that it can be easy to forget that some of us enjoy the voyage as much as the destination. I do that, too. Most people think I'm an idiot for what I'm doing with the PI tuning I'm attempting (and for other reasons, lol), and that isn't that dissimilar than this. There's a lot of misconceptions among the disinformation, and I think we're all trying to help, and I have to remind myself of that, too. No one saying go bigger is saying anyone who isn't is a fool or whatever. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, but I think 99% of us are trying to help, and sometimes it's hard to be helpful when there isn't a lot of context. I post how I post because the context helps me (and only people like me because of all the pontificating), and I think if there's a little more of that, we all could be a little more helpful.

JMVHO.

Respectfully...

[clg82]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

And doing a visual inspection. A sniffer test only applies to MY 2001 and older vehicles.

Whelp that explains it....Your guy is Stevie Wonder.....

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by radz28

OK. I thought you were in CA, but wasn't sure.

It seems to me that it can be easy to forget that some of us enjoy the voyage as much as the destination. I do that, too. Most people think I'm an idiot for what I'm doing with the PI tuning I'm attempting (and for other reasons, lol), and that isn't that dissimilar than this. There's a lot of misconceptions among the disinformation, and I think we're all trying to help, and I have to remind myself of that, too. No one saying go bigger is saying anyone who isn't is a fool or whatever. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, but I think 99% of us are trying to help, and sometimes it's hard to be helpful when there isn't a lot of context. I post how I post because the context helps me (and only people like me because of all the pontificating), and I think if there's a little more of that, we all could be a little more helpful.

JMVHO.

Respectfully...

Just remember brother (this goes for me too) it's only crazy if it doesn't work.

Originally Posted by clg82

Whelp that explains it....Your guy is Stevie Wonder.....

Give me your car, and let me deck it out the way I build my vehicles. You will be plenty happy with the power and performance you get out of it and you'd still be able to take it to any smog shop here in the yellow state and pass.

[Akura]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

You can keep the 1.7, but there are people who WON’T keep the 1.7 when they understand the physics involved. And this is a forum where we discuss these topics in depth, including facts you may not want to hear.

Originally Posted by clg82

Gabe after reading this is currently changing his whole website over to big boy blower mods now..........It would even be beneficial for him to go the Magnuson route with the Cali calibration CARB approved as well....sometimes it's hard to admit you made a mistake pouring the money into the lil guy...and that's ok too.....

You seem to overlook the fact that not everyone lives in the U.S. or, more specifically, in a state with the mechanic-freedoms you're accustomed to. In my case, I'm in Spain—yes, that country in Europe where many Americans dream of vacationing or retiring, attracted by exceptional food, culture, and free healthcare. But these advantages come with their own set of strict regulations, such as annual emissions testing coupled with an obligatory visual inspection. Simply swapping out the lid on the stock Eaton 1.7 supercharger would guarantee a failed inspection, let alone replacing the entire unit for a Maggie or any other "big boy blower" solution.

How much money I choose to spend—or supposedly "waste"—to reach my desired performance goal is entirely my business and no one else's. Sure, anyone can drop $40K on aftermarket parts and chase higher efficiency numbers, but where’s the fun in that? If I wanted raw horsepower figures and bragging rights, I'd just grab the Ferrari keys and go for a spin.

I chose this car precisely for its exclusivity here and the challenge of achieving my performance goals while keeping it as close to stock as possible. Whether that lands me at 650rwhp or 750rwhp is irrelevant. I've enjoyed every step of the journey to reach that target, fully aware that exceeding 1000hp is easily within reach—if done differently. That different approach, however, simply isn't what I want for this car.

Perhaps once you step away from admiring your own reflection, you'll realize your approach isn't the only valid one. Other choices are motivated by numerous reasons beyond pure economics or the single-minded pursuit of horsepower numbers.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by Akura

You seem to overlook the fact that not everyone lives in the U.S. or, more specifically, in a state with the mechanic-freedoms you're accustomed to. In my case, I'm in Spain—yes, that country in Europe where many Americans dream of vacationing or retiring, attracted by exceptional food, culture, and free healthcare. But these advantages come with their own set of strict regulations, such as annual emissions testing coupled with an obligatory visual inspection. Simply swapping out the lid on the stock Eaton 1.7 supercharger would guarantee a failed inspection, let alone replacing the entire unit for a Maggie or any other "big boy blower" solution.

How much money I choose to spend—or supposedly "waste"—to reach my desired performance goal is entirely my business and no one else's. Sure, anyone can drop $40K on aftermarket parts and chase higher efficiency numbers, but where’s the fun in that? If I wanted raw horsepower figures and bragging rights, I'd just grab the Ferrari keys and go for a spin.

I chose this car precisely for its exclusivity here and the challenge of achieving my performance goals while keeping it as close to stock as possible. Whether that lands me at 650rwhp or 750rwhp is irrelevant. I've enjoyed every step of the journey to reach that target, fully aware that exceeding 1000hp is easily within reach—if done differently. That different approach, however, simply isn't what I want for this car.

Perhaps once you step away from admiring your own reflection, you'll realize your approach isn't the only valid one. Other choices are motivated by numerous reasons beyond pure economics or the single-minded pursuit of horsepower numbers.

You know, since you are mentioning how even something as simple as a different lid can make you fail emissions inspections (I understand that struggle FULLY), if at any point a lid is something that you are interested in pursuing, I would strongly recommend you get in touch with Dave or Matt at DSX tuning as they can manufacture a stock looking lid for you made out of full billet aluminum instead of the cast aluminum OEM unit. That way you can get the added benefit of slightly cooler IAT's and increased blower whine under load.

https://dsxtuning.com/products/bille...33099951210576

.

[Akura]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

You know, since you are mentioning how even something as simple as a different lid can make you fail emissions inspections (I understand that struggle FULLY), if at any point a lid is something that you are interested in pursuing, I would strongly recommend you get in touch with Dave or Matt at DSX tuning as they can manufacture a stock looking lid for you made out of full billet aluminum instead of the cast aluminum OEM unit. That way you can get the added benefit of slightly cooler IAT's and increased blower whine under load.

https://dsxtuning.com/products/bille...33099951210576

.

Great info, very appreciated! Thank you!

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Akura

You seem to overlook the fact that not everyone lives in the U.S. or, more specifically, in a state with the mechanic-freedoms you're accustomed to. In my case, I'm in Spain—yes, that country in Europe where many Americans dream of vacationing or retiring, attracted by exceptional food, culture, and free healthcare. But these advantages come with their own set of strict regulations, such as annual emissions testing coupled with an obligatory visual inspection. Simply swapping out the lid on the stock Eaton 1.7 supercharger would guarantee a failed inspection, let alone replacing the entire unit for a Maggie or any other "big boy blower" solution.

How much money I choose to spend—or supposedly "waste"—to reach my desired performance goal is entirely my business and no one else's. Sure, anyone can drop $40K on aftermarket parts and chase higher efficiency numbers, but where’s the fun in that? If I wanted raw horsepower figures and bragging rights, I'd just grab the Ferrari keys and go for a spin.

I chose this car precisely for its exclusivity here and the challenge of achieving my performance goals while keeping it as close to stock as possible. Whether that lands me at 650rwhp or 750rwhp is irrelevant. I've enjoyed every step of the journey to reach that target, fully aware that exceeding 1000hp is easily within reach—if done differently. That different approach, however, simply isn't what I want for this car.

Perhaps once you step away from admiring your own reflection, you'll realize your approach isn't the only valid one. Other choices are motivated by numerous reasons beyond pure economics or the single-minded pursuit of horsepower numbers.

Again, this is a public forum where we’re going to consider options you may or may not want to do. Simply take the info that you find helpful and use it. If you don’t find it helpful, that’s ok too, simply choose not to use it. But we’re not going to bury our heads in the sand and pretend better options don’t exist, just because some live in an area that doesn’t have the freedom others do or because some simply don’t like the alternatives the aftermarket has to offer. We all get to make *better* decisions when *all* of the data is available for discussion, not just the OEM path. I’m all for choices and appreciate your decision to stay with the stock equipment, even if it isn’t something I would personally do.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

There are too many quotes to reflect upon!! This thread is great! Building my cars has always been about the journey and I've always been questioned about the Destination... "when are you going to be done with this THING!?!? Isn't it fast enough already?!?!" she would ask? So I dumped her and kept the car... which I also eventually sold too!!

The California EO also states that it was approved WITHOUT ANY TUNING and with specific pulley size limits. As soon as you tune the ECU, you've broken the law and voided the EO approval. Its a slippery slope.

The Lid tests by Florida High Performance proved the lids did virtually nothing for making power and only make NOISE while being more aesthetically pleasing. The only gain I can see in changing the lid would be going from cast to billet and the heat it can pull from the air charge due to the density IF it was not powdercoated which locks IN the heat by reducing the thermal rejection capabilities. Then again... no one has done such an exhaustive test as Erik Bentley, with the hood actually closed to make it really fair... but I commend him on a ton of work for 2hp!!

I'm at 56 years old now and no signs of slowing down... nope, none! I've been wrenching on stuff and even put nitrous systems on aircraft years ago so "Pushy Galore" could break a few World Records! When it comes to scope, there are no limits to what I will find amusing to build with my hands to see what makes it BETTER... and I accept the failures as learning, with a degree in Hard Knocks!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZLElvira

There are too many quotes to reflect upon!! This thread is great! Building my cars has always been about the journey and I've always been questioned about the Destination... "when are you going to be done with this THING!?!? Isn't it fast enough already?!?!" she would ask? So I dumped her and kept the car... which I also eventually sold too!!

The California EO also states that it was approved WITHOUT ANY TUNING and with specific pulley size limits. As soon as you tune the ECU, you've broken the law and voided the EO approval. Its a slippery slope.

The Lid tests by Florida High Performance proved the lids did virtually nothing for making power and only make NOISE while being more aesthetically pleasing. The only gain I can see in changing the lid would be going from cast to billet and the heat it can pull from the air charge due to the density IF it was not powdercoated which locks IN the heat by reducing the thermal rejection capabilities. Then again... no one has done such an exhaustive test as Erik Bentley, with the hood actually closed to make it really fair... but I commend him on a ton of work for 2hp!!

I'm at 56 years old now and no signs of slowing down... nope, none! I've been wrenching on stuff and even put nitrous systems on aircraft years ago so "Pushy Galore" could break a few World Records! When it comes to scope, there are no limits to what I will find amusing to build with my hands to see what makes it BETTER... and I accept the failures as learning, with a degree in Hard Knocks!

These blowers COME WITH TUNING accepted by CARB. Ask my why I know.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by ZLElvira

The California EO also states that it was approved WITHOUT ANY TUNING and with specific pulley size limits. As soon as you tune the ECU, you've broken the law and voided the EO approval. Its a slippery slope.

!

The California CARB compliant 2650 comes with a California CARB compliant tune.

Wait I had to reread what you said, so you seriously thought Magnuson would just sell you a Cali compliant 2650 without a tune? What would you do then, just bolt it on, not tune it and just drive it....?

[Akura]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Again, this is a public forum where we’re going to consider options you may or may not want to do. Simply take the info that you find helpful and use it. If you don’t find it helpful, that’s ok too, simply choose not to use it. But we’re not going to bury our heads in the sand and pretend better options don’t exist, just because some live in an area that doesn’t have the freedom others do or because some simply don’t like the alternatives the aftermarket has to offer. We all get to make *better* decisions when *all* of the data is available for discussion, not just the OEM path. I’m all for choices and appreciate your decision to stay with the stock equipment, even if it isn’t something I would personally do.

It's ok to add whatever info people wants, but with respect to others and their ways upgrading the car, respect that some people lacks here...

Originally Posted by ZLElvira

There are too many quotes to reflect upon!! This thread is great! Building my cars has always been about the journey and I've always been questioned about the Destination... "when are you going to be done with this THING!?!? Isn't it fast enough already?!?!" she would ask? So I dumped her and kept the car... which I also eventually sold too!!

The California EO also states that it was approved WITHOUT ANY TUNING and with specific pulley size limits. As soon as you tune the ECU, you've broken the law and voided the EO approval. Its a slippery slope.

The Lid tests by Florida High Performance proved the lids did virtually nothing for making power and only make NOISE while being more aesthetically pleasing. The only gain I can see in changing the lid would be going from cast to billet and the heat it can pull from the air charge due to the density IF it was not powdercoated which locks IN the heat by reducing the thermal rejection capabilities. Then again... no one has done such an exhaustive test as Erik Bentley, with the hood actually closed to make it really fair... but I commend him on a ton of work for 2hp!!

I'm at 56 years old now and no signs of slowing down... nope, none! I've been wrenching on stuff and even put nitrous systems on aircraft years ago so "Pushy Galore" could break a few World Records! When it comes to scope, there are no limits to what I will find amusing to build with my hands to see what makes it BETTER... and I accept the failures as learning, with a degree in Hard Knocks!

Thanks. Regarding the lid, I'm good with anything that helps lower temperatures. Extra power doesn't matter if I can't sustain it due to overheating. I'd rather have slightly less power consistently, than short bursts of peak power just for a single pull.