[FlukeSS]

Received a response from GM in regards to my Attorney General Office Complaint for Consumer fraud.

This issue is a defect recall, NOT a warranty issue. So while GM claims to take consumer safety seriously, they choose to ignore NHTSA regulation. Lie about there being no fix for it when there is a fix for it. And further openly violate Magnuson Moss Warranty Act claiming because my vehicle is modified and caused the damage to the Transmission.

The recall would still affect my vehicle if it was stock.

This is GM avoiding a costly recall repair of the 462,000 vehicles assuming each vehicle runs about $2000/each to repair would run GM about $900,000,000. That's bad for business. So GM cares about its profits more than consumer safety is what this letter actually says.

And yes I wrote my rebuttal response to the Attorney General's Office. 10 page rebuttal statement addressing everything they said in this response.

[Hernandez3674]

I received my Next Gen kit also but there is a tear in the instructions that show the check ball locations. Anyone have a pic of there locations? Thanks Roddrz for the tools required.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Received a response from GM in regards to my Attorney General Office Complaint for Consumer fraud.

This issue is a defect recall, NOT a warranty issue. So while GM claims to take consumer safety seriously, they choose to ignore NHTSA regulation. Lie about there being no fix for it when there is a fix for it. And further openly violate Magnuson Moss Warranty Act claiming because my vehicle is modified and caused the damage to the Transmission.

The recall would still affect my vehicle if it was stock.

This is GM avoiding a costly recall repair of the 462,000 vehicles assuming each vehicle runs about $2000/each to repair would run GM about $900,000,000. That's bad for business. So GM cares about its profits more than consumer safety is what this letter actually says.

And yes I wrote my rebuttal response to the Attorney General's Office. 10 page rebuttal statement addressing everything they said in this response.

I don't have an automatic so not completely aware of the recall issue at play here, but I'll provide another possible point of view to yours as food for thought. It would seem reasonable to expect that even if you voided your warranty, you should be eligible to receive recall service free of charge, when the recall is a preventive measure. But in this situation, it sounds like you are trying to ger GM to pay for damage that has already resulted to your transmission, reasoning that the damage is due to something directly related to recall (poorly engineered or manufactured part?).

Most recalls (GM or otherwise) have to do with safety or (possibly) attempted correction of a poorly engineered part in an attempt to prevent premature failure of said part. It isn't typical to fix a part that has already been damaged by something related to the recall, and if it was, the cause (the defect for which recall is being issued) would have to clearly be driving the failure result. This did happen with certain early 2000 Honda automatic transmissions, but getting Honda to pay for fixing busted transmissions was an uphill battle (they just wanted to add a preventative part to improve oiling).

In your case, you've muddied the waters further by modding your engine and adding 100HP to a stock system. So now, even if there was a case for consideration that a transmission engineering defect is the cause of the transmission malfunction and damage (the $2000 you are referring to, I assume), it's difficult to know whether your car's transmission problem is due to said engineering defect or instead, the mods you made to your engine.

You know well that GM's policy is that modding the engine or the tuning voids the warranty on the powertrain. And GM can defend that by arguing that owner mods may have caused the problem. So it shouldn't be surprising to you that if you want GM to pay to fix a damaged part of the drivetrain on your car, they'll refuse in situations where it's clear that you've modified the engine/tune, even when the part in question is part of some kind of recall issue.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I don't have an automatic so not completely aware of the recall issue at play here, but I'll provide another possible point of view to yours as food for thought. It would seem reasonable to expect that even if you voided your warranty, you should be eligible to receive recall service free of charge, when the recall is a preventive measure. But in this situation, it sounds like you are trying to ger GM to pay for damage that has already resulted to your transmission, reasoning that the damage is due to something directly related to recall (poorly engineered or manufactured part?).

Most recalls (GM or otherwise) have to do with safety or (possibly) attempted correction of a poorly engineered part in an attempt to prevent premature failure of said part. It isn't typical to fix a part that has already been damaged by something related to the recall, and if it was, the cause (the defect for which recall is being issued) would have to clearly be driving the failure result. This did happen with certain early 2000 Honda automatic transmissions, but getting Honda to pay for fixing busted transmissions was an uphill battle (they just wanted to add a preventative part to improve oiling).

In your case, you've muddied the waters further by modding your engine and adding 100HP to a stock system. So now, even if there was a case for consideration that a transmission engineering defect is the cause of the transmission malfunction and damage (the $2000 you are referring to, I assume), it's difficult to know whether your car's transmission problem is due to said engineering defect or instead, the mods you made to your engine.

You know well that GM's policy is that modding the engine or the tuning voids the warranty on the powertrain. And GM can defend that by arguing that owner mods may have caused the problem. So it shouldn't be surprising to you that if you want GM to pay to fix a damaged part of the drivetrain on your car, they'll refuse in situations where it's clear that you've modified the engine/tune, even when the part in question is part of some kind of recall issue.

I never said I had damage to my transmission. In fact I have no problems with it right now.

But here's the thing: A tuned / modified transmission is going to inherantly shift harder. One of the symptoms of this issue is hard shifting. So how do I tell what a hard shift is related to this problem as opposed to normal operation of my transmission?

Furthermore, their software update is a placaebo lie and will not prevent this issue from occuring. It is not a stop gap or remedy at all. Why? Because one of the troubleshooting steps to determine if you need to rebuild or replace the transmission is to check the condition of the transmission fluid. Now in my case here's the catch 22. When I rebuilt my engine I also changed my trans fluid, filter and gasket at 64,000 miles. So even if I were to upgrade the valve body, or GM were to do the recall work of any kind. There is no possible way for them to determine if my Transmisison is damaged at all without completely disassembling the transmission. Add in the fact that they still have to prove their defective valve body did not cause the damage which they also cannot do, and even if they do disassemble the trans find damage, there's no way for them to prove in court beyond a shadow of a doubt it was caused by the engine modifications and not the defective valve body.

And to add to that: Stories of transmissions failing exist such that the milage this issue can occur ranges from 3000 miles to 120,000+ miles. This software update CANNOT predict 10,000 miles before the issue occurs. It's flat out bullshit and GM is lying about it. This is GM pushing people out of warranty to force consumers to pay for something that can injure or kill people. Which is them ignoring NHTSA regulation. While lying about their claim to care about the safety of the consumer. This is text book Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Practices.

Furthermore, regardless if my engine is modified or not is irrelevant. According to Magnuson Moss Warranty Act one of the stipulations is that at the time of purchase the vehicle has a warranty and was stock when purchased. My vehicle was 100% stock, and had Full Bumper to Bumper warranty when purchased. Rather or not it is used or not does not matter.

Add to the fact this recall affects stock vehicles and my vehicle was not always modified and would STILL be on the recall list regardless. IF my mods caused the problem, then that means GM explicitly is admitting their stock tune is bad from the factory. Even more so when they fail to prove in court the modifications caused the issue of their "Admitted" "DEFECTIVE" "Valve body." Otherwise it would not affect stock vehicles now would it?

GM cannot legally deny on the basis of modifications because this issue affects stock vehicles the same as it affects modified vehicles.

Lastly the clincher is this: They are ignoring NHTSA regulation, rather or not I have a warranty is irrelevant it is STILL a safety recall that can injure or kill consumers and/or the people around them. This makes GM 100% liable. They admitted to that liability when they issued the recall on March 6th 2025.

As mentioned Tuning the TCM doesn't prevent the issue from existing on every vehicle on the recall list. It may change when the valve body fails, but it won't change the fact it will fail. GM has already admitted to the defective part. So under Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, GM has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that my engine modifications caused their "DEFECTIVE VALVE BODY" to fail. GM cannot prove this in court it is not a legal battle they can win at this point. Not to mention there are multiple sources that can testify to the valve body defect, and many people who can verify on stock vehicles the failure of the valve body. And I even know some people with modified vehicles who have the exact same issues as well.

GM has no pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of.

This is just standard Red Tape GM things.

[The Maverick]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

And to add to that: Stories of transmissions failing exist such that the milage this issue can occur ranges from 3000 miles to 120,000+ miles. This software update CANNOT predict 10,000 miles before the issue occurs. It's flat out bullshit and GM is lying about it.

I have seen you post this a few times now and am hoping to make a constructive suggestion that may aid the strength of your overall complaint.

Not to discount your problem and your attempts to get GM to do the right thing, but there seems to be a reasonable possibility you are overlooking here. The software update is supposed to identify a symptom of the lockup issue approximately 10k miles before a lockup occurs.

If we consider installation of the software update on a hypothetical vehicle that definitely is going to experience the problem in the next 3k miles, then all that seems to mean is that the software will immediately set a check engine condition upon install.

Now to test that theory we'd have to install the software on that hypothetical "within 3k of failure" vehicle to see if the trouble light indeed triggers. So who knows the answer. I am not saying it would work, but at the same time it is perhaps a reasonable GM rebuttal to your point, and it is one of your points that does not seem central to your overall claim.

Since there is a logical weakness in this particular point of your argument, you might want to consider dropping it in favor of what may be your stronger points.

Best of luck with the continued fight!

[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

I never said I had damage to my transmission. In fact I have no problems with it right now.

But here's the thing: A tuned / modified transmission is going to inherantly shift harder. One of the symptoms of this issue is hard shifting. So how do I tell what a hard shift is related to this problem as opposed to normal operation of my transmission?

Furthermore, their software update is a placaebo lie and will not prevent this issue from occuring. It is not a stop gap or remedy at all. Why? Because one of the troubleshooting steps to determine if you need to rebuild or replace the transmission is to check the condition of the transmission fluid. Now in my case here's the catch 22. When I rebuilt my engine I also changed my trans fluid, filter and gasket at 64,000 miles. So even if I were to upgrade the valve body, or GM were to do the recall work of any kind. There is no possible way for them to determine if my Transmisison is damaged at all without completely disassembling the transmission. Add in the fact that they still have to prove their defective valve body did not cause the damage which they also cannot do, and even if they do disassemble the trans find damage, there's no way for them to prove in court beyond a shadow of a doubt it was caused by the engine modifications and not the defective valve body.

And to add to that: Stories of transmissions failing exist such that the milage this issue can occur ranges from 3000 miles to 120,000+ miles. This software update CANNOT predict 10,000 miles before the issue occurs. It's flat out bullshit and GM is lying about it. This is GM pushing people out of warranty to force consumers to pay for something that can injure or kill people. Which is them ignoring NHTSA regulation. While lying about their claim to care about the safety of the consumer. This is text book Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Practices.

Furthermore, regardless if my engine is modified or not is irrelevant. According to Magnuson Moss Warranty Act one of the stipulations is that at the time of purchase the vehicle has a warranty and was stock when purchased. My vehicle was 100% stock, and had Full Bumper to Bumper warranty when purchased. Rather or not it is used or not does not matter.

Add to the fact this recall affects stock vehicles and my vehicle was not always modified and would STILL be on the recall list regardless. IF my mods caused the problem, then that means GM explicitly is admitting their stock tune is bad from the factory. Even more so when they fail to prove in court the modifications caused the issue of their "Admitted" "DEFECTIVE" "Valve body." Otherwise it would not affect stock vehicles now would it?

GM cannot legally deny on the basis of modifications because this issue affects stock vehicles the same as it affects modified vehicles.

Lastly the clincher is this: They are ignoring NHTSA regulation, rather or not I have a warranty is irrelevant it is STILL a safety recall that can injure or kill consumers and/or the people around them. This makes GM 100% liable. They admitted to that liability when they issued the recall on March 6th 2025.

As mentioned Tuning the TCM doesn't prevent the issue from existing on every vehicle on the recall list. It may change when the valve body fails, but it won't change the fact it will fail. GM has already admitted to the defective part. So under Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, GM has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that my engine modifications caused their "DEFECTIVE VALVE BODY" to fail. GM cannot prove this in court it is not a legal battle they can win at this point. Not to mention there are multiple sources that can testify to the valve body defect, and many people who can verify on stock vehicles the failure of the valve body. And I even know some people with modified vehicles who have the exact same issues as well.

GM has no pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of.

This is just standard Red Tape GM things.

I thought I read somewhere part of this recall was to extend the transmission warranty to 150,000 miles or 15 years, whichever comes first...

[Roddrz]

These are the main steps to install the Next Gen Drivetrain upgrade valve body kit for a 10L60.

Note: Not shown but discard all 3 OEM gaskets and replace them with the Next Gen Drivetrain gaskets supplied in the kit.

• The gaskets after heating and compression forms the seal between the valve body halves.

The thermostat is the brass cylinder.
Discard this thermostat to improve cooling and facilitate a full fluid flush.

The installation from setup to cleanup is approximately 8 - 10 hours.

I'll also post this install with some additional tips over in the section, "Camaro DIY & How-to...."

This is the upgrade valve kit from Next Gen Drivetrain $999.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by The Maverick

I have seen you post this a few times now and am hoping to make a constructive suggestion that may aid the strength of your overall complaint.

Not to discount your problem and your attempts to get GM to do the right thing, but there seems to be a reasonable possibility you are overlooking here. The software update is supposed to identify a symptom of the lockup issue approximately 10k miles before a lockup occurs.

If we consider installation of the software update on a hypothetical vehicle that definitely is going to experience the problem in the next 3k miles, then all that seems to mean is that the software will immediately set a check engine condition upon install.

Now to test that theory we'd have to install the software on that hypothetical "within 3k of failure" vehicle to see if the trouble light indeed triggers. So who knows the answer. I am not saying it would work, but at the same time it is perhaps a reasonable GM rebuttal to your point, and it is one of your points that does not seem central to your overall claim.

Since there is a logical weakness in this particular point of your argument, you might want to consider dropping it in favor of what may be your stronger points.

Best of luck with the continued fight!

It does not just set check engine condition, it locks the transmission to 5th gear to prevent the wheel lock issue. IF it can predict the issue occuring when there are testimony of vehicles ranging with wheel lock issue from 3000 miles to 120,000 miles. That indicates a new car can wheel lock at low mileage even sub 10,000 miles according to the suggested evidence. This doesn't make logical sense now does it? I am pretty sure it is a plaecebo thing GM has implemented to push people out of warranty who do not have the issue yet, then they deny coverage and force the consumer to pay for repair when it does happen. Again, remember, the 150,000 mile 15 year warranty only covers the valve body, NOT if damage has already occurred to the transmission as a result of the failed valve body. And if the software kicks off and locks the trans to 5th gear, that means there is a high probability that the trans is damaged already. Unless I misread the warranty description. GM saves a ton of money doing this. As mentioned previously if GM were to fix all the recalled vehicles it would run them $900,000,000 assuming $2000 repair each vehicle. That's $1000 for the part from Next Gen Drivetrain and $1000 in labor to pull the transmission disassemble it and check if there is further damage beyond the defective valve body.

Either way this does NOT account for modified vehicles, as they get no warranty according to GM. Then as you saw in their response, they blame my modifications to the engine as causing damage to the transmission, when they already admitted the valve body is defective.

So which came first the chicken or the egg?

I bought my car, stock, with full bumper to bumper warranty. Even if I did not modify the car, that doesn't remove my car from the recall list now does it? GM lied about there being no fix for it. GM ignores NHTSA regulation. GM has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in court under the Magnuson Moss Warranty that the issue is specifically caused by the modifications and not the defective part. All evidence to the contrary. So the answer to that question really is quite easy, and the fact I'm modified becomes irrelevant when the transmission is 100% stock from the factory.


But yes, what you said is a test that can be performed. Test the update on the low mileage car with the issue. So we take the car to chevy they install the update. What SHOULD happen is the car is immediately put into that condition. And if it doesn't, then the Update is benign and does nothing. Even if it does work properly, that does not exonerate GM's liability nor responsibility. Now what about modified vechicles with stock transmissions like mine? To hell with us? We kill ourselves or someone else and it is suddenly our fault our responsibility because GM/Chevy explicitly refused to do any recall work on a modified vehicle because GM states there is no fix for it? No, the defective part is still there, and there is a fix, that is still GM's responsibility 100% regardless.

I modified my vehicle knowing full well this day would come. And I am prepared to ride the train to the last stop. Because it is not right that GM should skirt responsibility just to save a buck while fasely advertising their deepest concerns about consumer safety in violation of government regulations while deceptively and fraudulently misleading consumers as it pertains to warrany coverage and a current existing resolution to the issue that can prevent any damage from occuring before it occurs while their software update explicitly does NOT do that.

[Chutzpah]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

It does not just set check engine condition, it locks the transmission to 5th gear to prevent the wheel lock issue. IF it can predict the issue occuring when there are testimony of vehicles ranging with wheel lock issue from 3000 miles to 120,000 miles. That indicates a new car can wheel lock at low mileage even sub 10,000 miles according to the suggested evidence. This doesn't make logical sense now does it? I am pretty sure it is a plaecebo thing GM has implemented to push people out of warranty who do not have the issue yet, then they deny coverage and force the consumer to pay for repair when it does happen. Again, remember, the 150,000 mile 15 year warranty only covers the valve body, NOT if damage has already occurred to the transmission as a result of the failed valve body. And if the software kicks off and locks the trans to 5th gear, that means there is a high probability that the trans is damaged already. Unless I misread the warranty description. GM saves a ton of money doing this. As mentioned previously if GM were to fix all the recalled vehicles it would run them $900,000,000 assuming $2000 repair each vehicle. That's $1000 for the part from Next Gen Drivetrain and $1000 in labor to pull the transmission disassemble it and check if there is further damage beyond the defective valve body.

Either way this does NOT account for modified vehicles, as they get no warranty according to GM. Then as you saw in their response, they blame my modifications to the engine as causing damage to the transmission, when they already admitted the valve body is defective.

So which came first the chicken or the egg?

I bought my car, stock, with full bumper to bumper warranty. Even if I did not modify the car, that doesn't remove my car from the recall list now does it? GM lied about there being no fix for it. GM ignores NHTSA regulation. GM has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in court under the Magnuson Moss Warranty that the issue is specifically caused by the modifications and not the defective part. All evidence to the contrary. So the answer to that question really is quite easy, and the fact I'm modified becomes irrelevant when the transmission is 100% stock from the factory.


But yes, what you said is a test that can be performed. Test the update on the low mileage car with the issue. So we take the car to chevy they install the update. What SHOULD happen is the car is immediately put into that condition. And if it doesn't, then the Update is benign and does nothing. Even if it does work properly, that does not exonerate GM's liability nor responsibility. Now what about modified vechicles with stock transmissions like mine? To hell with us? We kill ourselves or someone else and it is suddenly our fault our responsibility because GM/Chevy explicitly refused to do any recall work on a modified vehicle because GM states there is no fix for it? No, the defective part is still there, and there is a fix, that is still GM's responsibility 100% regardless.

I modified my vehicle knowing full well this day would come. And I am prepared to ride the train to the last stop. Because it is not right that GM should skirt responsibility just to save a buck while fasely advertising their deepest concerns about consumer safety in violation of government regulations while deceptively and fraudulently misleading consumers as it pertains to warrany coverage and a current existing resolution to the issue that can prevent any damage from occuring before it occurs while their software update explicitly does NOT do that.

I’ve accepted that GM and the other US manufacturers are in the business of immediate gratification- shareholder / $ and not retaining customers and their loyalty. This will be my last American vehicle. I’ve also accepted that GM will do absolutely nothing to resolve this, unless forced to do so….And it will not happen under this administration (not a political statement, just common sense) Even if there were deaths, it would be many years of legal wrangling to partly resolve (cutting a deal). I have zero desire to proactively modify the valve body components. I’ll weigh the upfront cost of an extended warrantee verse the potential risk and move on. While I fully understand your point of view, I’ve learned it not worth stressing or getting mad about it. This is the world we live in..

[Roddrz]

This is my opinion and we are entitled to one.

The transmission repair offers both value and peace of mind by fixing issues, improving performance and extending its lifespan.

This recall has enhanced my understanding of vehicle maintenance.

The transmission upgrade is more important than a transmission tune and comparable to other vehicle improvements like:

• High performance fluids
• Oil catch can
• Fuel filter
• Security systems
• Exhaust and engine modifications
• Engine tunes and upgrades
• Audio upgrades
• Wiring improvements
• BMR/other suspension components
• AFM disablers
• Paint protection film
• Stabilizer bars
• ETC, the list could go on for pages

Taking immediate action on the recall is more beneficial than waiting.

While we can be selective about which issues to address, ignoring transmission problems could lead to extensive damage.

Waiting for a class action lawsuit to resolve would be counterproductive, as these legal processes often take years and any potential settlement may not adequately cover repairs that could have been addressed when first identified.

By installing another upgrade to the vehicle, I know that the investment made will improve the ownership experience, and when I'm ready to sell the vehicle, I'll be able to explain to the next owner that everything was done to ensure the life of this Camaro for today and tomorrow.

[radz28]

Roddrz,

Thank you for sharing everything you have. This is a lot of helpful info.

I, also, appreciate the legal efforts. I, too, think it's BS they can be allowed to sell ab acknowledged bad set of parts and hide behind unrelated modifications. This won't push me from getting rid of my dream car, but I, MOST likely, won't buy GM again.

[Roddrz]

Originally Posted by radz28

Roddrz,

Thank you for sharing everything you have. This is a lot of helpful info.

I, also, appreciate the legal efforts. I, too, think it's BS they can be allowed to sell ab acknowledged bad set of parts and hide behind unrelated modifications. This won't push me from getting rid of my dream car, but I, MOST likely, won't buy GM again.

I share your opinion and arpad_m's opinion. I'm disappointed too.

My next vehicle is a Honda.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Chutzpah

I’ve accepted that GM and the other US manufacturers are in the business of immediate gratification- shareholder / $ and not retaining customers and their loyalty. This will be my last American vehicle. I’ve also accepted that GM will do absolutely nothing to resolve this, unless forced to do so….And it will not happen under this administration (not a political statement, just common sense) Even if there were deaths, it would be many years of legal wrangling to partly resolve (cutting a deal). I have zero desire to proactively modify the valve body components. I’ll weigh the upfront cost of an extended warrantee verse the potential risk and move on. While I fully understand your point of view, I’ve learned it not worth stressing or getting mad about it. This is the world we live in..

Until this tide turns, if ever, my 2018 Camaro (that I factory ordered) will be my last vehicle from these "domestic" manufacturers, and especially General Motors.

Since then we've bought a Nissan and a Mazda instead, and of course I know losing these sales is peanuts to GM, but I'm done supporting their disgusting corporate attitude. The next truck we will probably need to buy will be a Toyota or a Nissan.


It feels like the 6th gen Camaro was an exception rather than the rule, the engineering team trying to go against the internal steamroller to somehow still get something remarkable done. Sure, the C8 is now their flagship and it certainly got even more latitude as an even bigger exception, but my previous point still stands.

[Anjilslaire]

I got my recall notice and it says, parts are unavailable. The software update to detect & limit to 5th gear is a mitigation until parts are available to fix it fully.
I interpret that to mean fully to repaired with updated parts to prevent this in the future.