[Annihilate]

So, I've got a fairly new and fresh car, but I've been thinking...

I plan on keeping this thing for the duration of my life. I (ideally) have quite a bit of that left.

I was just thinking about my headlights for some reason... What is the realistic lifespan for these things?

I noticed the pre '19 refresh vehicles still had HID bulbs that could be replaced...

I know that the LED is essentially a sealed beam, "guaranteed" to last "the life of the car"

Call my cynical, but what happens 10-15 years down the line if one of these puppies go out? Is it realistic to believe that these things will still be made?

I'm thinking fairly far out here, but how about all these computer systems?

Here's a question, how complicated would it be to get a manual transmission ICE vehicle like this one to run on bare bones? Stripped down but still manageable? Are there aftermarket computer systems that can take control of the car? What things could be eliminated or deleted if so desired?

I keep looking out to my '88 IROC (TPI, still Computer but very basic), my Dads '69 (Carb, I wanna learn more about tuning a carb) And I am wondering what am I gonna do when it's well past it's prime and I want to continue to work on it!

I wont have this thing paid off for another few years at this point, and perhaps repairing and keeping my Camaro in good shape, driving the way I want, will be the least of my worries.

But this whole planned obsolescence thing does live in my mind.


I guess what I am asking is, how much can we do to stave off planned obsolescence of technology (ie the systems that the car relies on) to maintain a reasonable level of control and repair-ability?

Should I just start stocking up on parts I think I might need? Like $4000 headlights?

Are there any aftermarket open source, or at least heavily customizable replacement computer systems?

Just curious...

[Blackrat]

Honestly a big reason I was hesitant to sell my fourth gen and pick up my 21. I know if anything failed on that the aftermarket was available and given how prevalent LS swaps are I could find someone that could get that car back up and running. Given cars back then were pretty bare bones you could almost always find something better in the aftermarket to replace it. My current one, everything about it is specific to its trim. the dssv dampers were made especially for the car, as are each of the heat exchangers. What happens if one of those busts a leak a decade from now? If it's not repairable I'm going to have to find someone to make a custom unit. I doubt there's going to be a readily available source for them in the used section.

My coworker went through something similar to this with his Volvo sport wagon. It was available from the factory with a trim spec'd out by some tuner. Unfortunately that tuner went belly up during covid and so went the ability to get any replacement parts for the exhaust, suspension, and brakes. He sold it shortly after to get ahead of any problems that may arise from that.

[JT6Speed]

Funny, I've been thinking about this too, but more or less, what happens to the "technology?"

In many years down the line, I'm curious how the infotainment system will function for example, as I assume it will be unable to receive any updates. Will certain features be unavailable, or just completely screwed up? Who knows, but that's been on my mind for sure.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

Funny, I've been thinking about this too, but more or less, what happens to the "technology?"

In many years down the line, I'm curious how the infotainment system will function for example, as I assume it will be unable to receive any updates. Will certain features be unavailable, or just completely screwed up? Who knows, but that's been on my mind for sure.

The only features that can and will become unavailable are the ones relying on a remote server, e.g. OnStar or software updates. What's already in your car will keep working as long as the hardware remains functional.

The bigger question is if the aftermarket will be able to provide new hardware when something breaks, given how much the software is locked down. I've seen a bunch of Android head units that vastly improve the infotainment experience, but those aren't 100% integrated with the rest of the modules.

[m6-lt1]

Don’t take offense to this but I think a lot of folks buy cars they say they are going to keep forever, but they wind up selling them anyway. Not saying you’ll do that but I think there is a chance you will based on this post.

I’ll be honest I’m one of those folks that thought he’d keep his Camaro forever but mine is getting sold just before the warranty is up. I’m a car guy, I get bored of said cars I have and want to try out different things.

Anyway back when I was thinking about keeping my 1LE forever I looked into the LED lights. If you google it you’ll see there are companies that repair led lights. As more cars have them, more will go out, folks will be shocked at the cost to replace them so there will be demand for more led repair places to open up just like there are hybrid battery repair places.

I am pretty sure holly has a system that can run our cars. Now you might have to replace the cluster or your cluster will look like a Christmas tree but you should be able to run and drive your car should the ecm/pcm go out. Won’t be cheap but it’s possible.

[GreyGhost702]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

Funny, I've been thinking about this too, but more or less, what happens to the "technology?"

In many years down the line, I'm curious how the infotainment system will function for example, as I assume it will be unable to receive any updates. Will certain features be unavailable, or just completely screwed up? Who knows, but that's been on my mind for sure.

The technology has always been a soft spot in modern vehicles. I think it's fairly safe to say, if everything works fine for the warranty period, it will likely last.

As long as the vehicle software doesn't cause conflicts, the hardware will last a very long time. At some point, there could be hardware failures due to a single or multiple components rendering an entire module useless and needing replacement. In PC's, we see a bad stick of RAM can cause a ton of headaches, while most of the time it won't completely gimp a computer, it can do as little as cause random crashes and be annoying, or if its bad enough make the PC completely unusable. The infotainment unit could go this way. Anything from screen pixels failing to bad memory could leave the unit gimped, and it is sole access for certain vehicle functions including custom ride settings. While factory units will remain available for a while, who is to say in 10 years you'd be able to find a new unit anywhere. At best maybe a refurbished unit. I'm not sure if the aftermarket makes a touch screen replacement with OE or better fit/finish, and integrates all the OE features as well.

Trying to anticipate what replacement parts to stock is kind of throwing darts blind. Particularly if you're commuting in the car, you'll chew up more variety of parts.

IMO, best thing you can do is shop the sales. Like when RockAuto has closeout sales or bulk discount sales. I got a nice deal on 10 WIX oil filters for the car and a couple sets of spark plugs. Deals on oil and other fluids, brake pads/discs. As we are all aware, things don't get cheaper over time. But if you're putting the miles on and don't see yourself getting rid of the car, having those wear/tear parts on hand could pinch some pennies down the road. But IMO I wouldn't keep an extra infotainment unit or set of headlights on my shelf. Stock up on maintenance parts when they are at a discount when you can and that will be the best favor you can do for yourself if you're keeping a vehicle long-term.

[Abubaca]

I'm also a thirdgen guy at heart. I recognize you from TGO, lol! -Anyhow, yeah, I've thought about this too. Getting the engine and transmission to function shouldn't be too hard, and the aftermarket, like Holley etc. etc., will likely have options. The problem is just how many other features will or will NOT work. How will you change drive modes? Traction/launch control? Creature comforts. Heck, just making little fixes NOW....while parts are readily available, is 100 times harder than it was on older car with how everything is integrated. On the other side of that coin though, having watched this with my own two eyes with the third, fourth and fifth gens, half of the 6th gen owners will sell their car in the next few years and replace it with whatever new hotness comes out. Of those that keep 'em, another half will sell in the following few years. Those of us who stay in the game will now own a car that is no longer cutting edge, no longer at the front of the pack, top of the foodchain etc. etc., and most of us will likely be taking extremely good care of the car. They should last a good while, and eventually......people find ways to "fix" things. I think about all the support we have for the thirdgen, that does NOT come from big aftermarket companies. There are guys making 3d printed parts in their basement. Guys fixing the old gauge clusters by hand, in their garage etc. etc. "life finds a way", lol.



I do think about it. I don't really WORRY though.

[ctrlz]

Originally Posted by Annihilate

my Dads '69 (Carb, I wanna learn more about tuning a carb) And I am wondering what am I gonna do when it's well past it's prime and I want to continue to work on it!

This is one of the most concise and readable explanations on carb theory, and references two very common series of holley carbs. You can read it for free online. Still available in print. You would want the specific manual for the carb on the car, but the theory explained here is universal:
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...mp-4160-manual

[Number 3]

A great point, but the main issue with keeping a Gen6 running 20 or even 30 years from now is the production numbers. Basically, they didn't sell enough to warrant the aftermarket community tooling up a lot of parts. Now you can get aftermarket headlamps and taillamps now, but none of those are OEM quality (regardless of what they tell you) but down the road you may need things like front or rear fascias (available today) and sheet metal (not likely down the road) or interior bits (also not likely).

If you want a taste, go out and look at a few other low volume cars GM has done and see how the parts availability is. Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky and the Chevy SS. Solstice and Sky are 15 years past end of production. SS is pushing 10 now. I've not heard great things on Solstice/Sky parts. Gen6 is higher than these examples, but it's sales volume that will help the aftermarket tool things up down the road.

And since it hasn't come up, there is no requirement for 10 years of parts availability. It's kind of an urban legend but isn't a requirement anywhere. Some companies do try to keep service parts on had, including body panels and cabs for some time after production ends. I remember at my first job at GM we were building out for service cabs for the old MD tilt cab.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

A great point, but the main issue with keeping a Gen6 running 20 or even 30 years from now is the production numbers. Basically, they didn't sell enough to warrant the aftermarket community tooling up a lot of parts. Now you can get aftermarket headlamps and taillamps now, but none of those are OEM quality (regardless of what they tell you) but down the road you may need things like front or rear fascias (available today) and sheet metal (not likely down the road) or interior bits (also not likely).

If you want a taste, go out and look at a few other low volume cars GM has done and see how the parts availability is. Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky and the Chevy SS. Solstice and Sky are 15 years past end of production. SS is pushing 10 now. I've not heard great things on Solstice/Sky parts. Gen6 is higher than these examples, but it's sales volume that will help the aftermarket tool things up down the road.

And since it hasn't come up, there is no requirement for 10 years of parts availability. It's kind of an urban legend but isn't a requirement anywhere. Some companies do try to keep service parts on had, including body panels and cabs for some time after production ends. I remember at my first job at GM we were building out for service cabs for the old MD tilt cab.

This is a very good point although I thought the 6th gen may had sold enough to warrant aftermarket support. In general though sales are down for EVERY sports car the past 10 years so if these aftermarket companies want to stay in business it may make sense for them to make aftermarket parts for cars that didn’t have great sales.

I have no idea how e-diffs are going to get replaced in the future. Something i absolutely hate about Chevy is not making 6th gen diffs (even the non-e-diffs) rebuildable.

I bought my Camaro because I thought it’d be the hurah for manual ice v8’s but that was a premature decision. There are still options being made and dodge is going to be bringing back their hemi’s. I like enjoying different cars but I get it that Camaro enthusiasts don’t want to try out newer but similar cars.

[brushmore]

I have a 2014 Camaro SS with bolt ons. It was owned by a friend of mine who passed away a few years ago. Granted it only has 18k miles on it but it feels like a brand new car still. OnStar doesn't work any more after they made the switch to 5g but I see that as a positive. The 5th gens are holding up well. There's no issue with obtaining parts or even after market upgrades! I also have own C3 corvettes, very few issues with parts there either.

Given past history, I am convinced you'll be able to keep the car going as long as you want it.

[Annihilate]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Don’t take offense to this but I think a lot of folks buy cars they say they are going to keep forever, but they wind up selling them anyway. Not saying you’ll do that but I think there is a chance you will based on this post.

I’ll be honest I’m one of those folks that thought he’d keep his Camaro forever but mine is getting sold just before the warranty is up. I’m a car guy, I get bored of said cars I have and want to try out different things.

Anyway back when I was thinking about keeping my 1LE forever I looked into the LED lights. If you google it you’ll see there are companies that repair led lights. As more cars have them, more will go out, folks will be shocked at the cost to replace them so there will be demand for more led repair places to open up just like there are hybrid battery repair places.

I am pretty sure holly has a system that can run our cars. Now you might have to replace the cluster or your cluster will look like a Christmas tree but you should be able to run and drive your car should the ecm/pcm go out. Won’t be cheap but it’s possible.

Well I'll disclose this, I had no interest in owning a new car, and I still don't really, however the Camaro has had a soft spot in my heart since the 5th gen came out (I'm going to be entering a new decade of being alive this year)

At my current age, I feel I have reached all my material goals, and I have no aspirations to own more (large things) or change what I do own. My home is about 100 years old ( 99 technically, was built in 1926) I still use an iPod classic, and I have vintage hifi equipment which I have learned to repair.

I'm not really a big fan of new technology, and when I buy something that costs as much as this does, I intend to keep it.

Obviously with hobbies things will continue to be purchased, as I mentioned I have an IROC as well, and I still plan to fix that up and potentially spruce with some modern upgrades, but unless something catastrophic happens (God forbid) this will be the most modern car I own.

I think it was on a 2012 Malibu my girlfriend had that required the removal of the front bumper to change the headlight?

Why would I want to move into modern vehicles when they are designed so specifically to prevent user repairs. In fact, one of the reasons I like the Camaro is that it is still fairly serviceable, minus the computer bizz.

Knowing what can be replaced and knowing that others have done similar things is enough to give me some peace.

I'm glad this thread gained some traction and I didn't come off as a tin foil hat wearing dude yelling at clouds lol.

[JT6Speed]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

The only features that can and will become unavailable are the ones relying on a remote server, e.g. OnStar or software updates. What's already in your car will keep working as long as the hardware remains functional.

The bigger question is if the aftermarket will be able to provide new hardware when something breaks, given how much the software is locked down. I've seen a bunch of Android head units that vastly improve the infotainment experience, but those aren't 100% integrated with the rest of the modules.

I agree. But I wonder about certain things, take climate controls as an example. On the new Mustangs, nearly everything is done through the screens. So what happens years down the line when they go out, you can't turn on the heat or A/C? Our cars are a little better, in that there are at least buttons/dials for where you want the heat to come out, fan speed, etc. That said, it is still electronic, and is more prone to failing than a truly analog system like on my base Honda. When you turn the knob for the airflow to come out by the feet or dash vents, you literally feel it opening and closing the damper doors.

Originally Posted by GreyGhost702

The technology has always been a soft spot in modern vehicles. I think it's fairly safe to say, if everything works fine for the warranty period, it will likely last.

As long as the vehicle software doesn't cause conflicts, the hardware will last a very long time. At some point, there could be hardware failures due to a single or multiple components rendering an entire module useless and needing replacement. In PC's, we see a bad stick of RAM can cause a ton of headaches, while most of the time it won't completely gimp a computer, it can do as little as cause random crashes and be annoying, or if its bad enough make the PC completely unusable. The infotainment unit could go this way. Anything from screen pixels failing to bad memory could leave the unit gimped, and it is sole access for certain vehicle functions including custom ride settings. While factory units will remain available for a while, who is to say in 10 years you'd be able to find a new unit anywhere. At best maybe a refurbished unit. I'm not sure if the aftermarket makes a touch screen replacement with OE or better fit/finish, and integrates all the OE features as well.

Trying to anticipate what replacement parts to stock is kind of throwing darts blind. Particularly if you're commuting in the car, you'll chew up more variety of parts.

IMO, best thing you can do is shop the sales. Like when RockAuto has closeout sales or bulk discount sales. I got a nice deal on 10 WIX oil filters for the car and a couple sets of spark plugs. Deals on oil and other fluids, brake pads/discs. As we are all aware, things don't get cheaper over time. But if you're putting the miles on and don't see yourself getting rid of the car, having those wear/tear parts on hand could pinch some pennies down the road. But IMO I wouldn't keep an extra infotainment unit or set of headlights on my shelf. Stock up on maintenance parts when they are at a discount when you can and that will be the best favor you can do for yourself if you're keeping a vehicle long-term.

Good points. I do think, or at least hope, that this car can hang on quite awhile with good maintenance. It's just interesting to think about how the 6th gen will age, considering it is the most tech driven Camaro. Like you said, even relatively minor stuff like the infotainment system not working can prevent you from accessing certain features and options related to the car.