[truckrglenn]

Originally Posted by RIPws6

If they want to make it affordable, I guess they could make them at the Trax plant in South Korea where they don’t have to deal with the UAW. There’s something to be said about pricing yourself out of a job.

How much do you get paid? Have you ever worked in an auto plant?
Did you know that when you work in an auto assembly plant you can't go to the bathroom without having someone relieve you at your position on the line?

And if that relief person is already covering someone, you have to wait. The area that you work in is usually the length of a refrigerator or two. And your stuck there for 2 to 2.5 hours at a time.

Only the newer plants in the last 25 or so years have air conditioning and proper ventilation? The plant that I worked in had a misty oily air 24/7. 1/3rd of the plant was die cast, where they poured molten metal into dies. Part of the plant was where they stamped out parts with 500 ton presses. Another section was where the plastic injection machines were. Have you ever smelt hot melted plastic? Did you know that it's toxic?

I could go on and on, but unless you've worked in an auto plant, you don't have a clue. Even today, with all of the safety features, people are getting hurt everyday.

Let's not mention that when companies open over seas or in Mexico, there is no government safety. Towns are polluted, rivers and water sources are polluted.

I'm out

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by truckrglenn

How much do you get paid? Have you ever worked in an auto plant?
Did you know that when you work in an auto assembly plant you can't go to the bathroom without having someone relieve you at your position on the line?

And if that relief person is already covering someone, you have to wait. The area that you work in is usually the length of a refrigerator or two. And your stuck there for 2 to 2.5 hours at a time.

Only the newer plants in the last 25 or so years have air conditioning and proper ventilation? The plant that I worked in had a misty oily air 24/7. 1/3rd of the plant was die cast, where they poured molten metal into dies. Part of the plant was where they stamped out parts with 500 ton presses. Another section was where the plastic injection machines were. Have you ever smelt hot melted plastic? Did you know that it's toxic?

I could go on and on, but unless you've worked in an auto plant, you don't have a clue. Even today, with all of the safety features, people are getting hurt everyday.

Let's not mention that when companies open over seas or in Mexico, there is no government safety. Towns are polluted, rivers and water sources are polluted.

I'm out

EXCELLENT POINTS! I've been on several factory tours and I'd never work in one. You couldnt pay me enough.

[truckrglenn]

People only hear about the great jobs that a few people get. The ones with the crappy jobs aren't out bragging.

The Saturn plant in Spring Hill, Tn had the worst ergonomic record of all the GM plants.

I worked at the plant that I described above for 18 years. I had my share of bumps and cuts, but luckily nothing major. I did have a friend who lost half of his right arm in an accident.

In 12 years at the Saturn plant I had 4 surgeries. Two on my left hand, one on my right hand and my right elbow. All because of ergonomics.

By the time that I retired with a total of 30 years, I couldn't hold a bolt to properly use a gun to screw it in. Today, almost 20 years later, I'm constantly dropping small bolts and items. Did I mention that I have to wearing hearing aids? I always wore hearing protection and safety glasses.

If it wasn't for the UAW, fighting for the working man, I'd still be having to working someplace.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by truckrglenn

How much do you get paid? Have you ever worked in an auto plant?
Did you know that when you work in an auto assembly plant you can't go to the bathroom without having someone relieve you at your position on the line?

And if that relief person is already covering someone, you have to wait. The area that you work in is usually the length of a refrigerator or two. And your stuck there for 2 to 2.5 hours at a time.

Only the newer plants in the last 25 or so years have air conditioning and proper ventilation? The plant that I worked in had a misty oily air 24/7. 1/3rd of the plant was die cast, where they poured molten metal into dies. Part of the plant was where they stamped out parts with 500 ton presses. Another section was where the plastic injection machines were. Have you ever smelt hot melted plastic? Did you know that it's toxic?

I could go on and on, but unless you've worked in an auto plant, you don't have a clue. Even today, with all of the safety features, people are getting hurt everyday.

Let's not mention that when companies open over seas or in Mexico, there is no government safety. Towns are polluted, rivers and water sources are polluted.

I'm out

Interesting. I've never experienced anything as bleak as you've described. Foundries were close back in the late '70s early '80s but the foundries at GM at least have long since entered the modern world of factories. By the mid '80s plants were structured in work teams and a lot of the equipment was automated. Instead of one man-->one machine there was typically a small group of people managing a group of machines. I say managing, because for the most part the machine loaded and cycled themselves.

Assembly lines are different in that people typically had zonal operations. There was still a lot of tagging in and tagging out but again, this was handled in teams. That's pretty much my experience with GM plants and supplier plants over 40 plus years in the industry. Admittedly, I've never been to the Spring Hill Saturn plant, but I've been to a number of plants that were supposedly based on the work cell concepts used at Spring Hill. Wouldn't argue for one second what you say about plants in other countries. They're all over the place in terms of safety and job rules.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

What about GM could possibly be classified as "woke"?

For starters....lol

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/01...re-in-schools/

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/05...usive-company/

Mary Barra may not be a DEI hire herself, but gm has gone that way.

Hiring practices based solely on race, etc., is indeed discrimination. (Likely soon to be recognized as illegal and unconstitutional and the end of a "woke" creation.)

[len_eng]

The biggest thing that needs to be done is for CARB to be broken. A large number of states including my own have joined up at the hip. Whatever CARB does they all do automatically. Including their upcoming ridiculous ban on ICE vehicles.

[2018 Blue 1LE]

Does this fall under her watch?


I know it is a fuel economy thing the government requires.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by 2018 Blue 1LE

Does this fall under her watch?


I know it is a fuel economy thing the government requires.

Not saying the AFM lifters are not an issue, but this guy is just sharing anecdotes he found online with no real stats or facts.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by len_eng

The biggest thing that needs to be done is for CARB to be broken. A large number of states including my own have joined up at the hip. Whatever CARB does they all do automatically. Including their upcoming ridiculous ban on ICE vehicles.

AMEN!!! CARB mandates have already forced small EVAP certified and equipped fuel cells to become uncertified for California use. Thats right! Even if you make a 10 gallon fuel cell that has an EVAP canister and EVAP rated hoses and clamps, you may not sell into California. The Federal Government needs to SHUT IT DOWN!!!!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 2018 Blue 1LE

Does this fall under her watch?


I know it is a fuel economy thing the government requires.

Well, yes and no. It happened while she was CEO so ultimately she has to bear responsibility for what the people who report to her do. But would this have happened if Mark Reuss or Dan Ammann had been selected as CEO instead of Mary? Yes it would have. Because the CEO is not the one who signs off on product design or validation tests or FMEA. That's on the head of the vehicle program, as well as the chief engineer for the engine. The head of each vehicle program reports to the head of Product Development. The head of Product Development (currently Ken Morris, reporting to Mark Reuss) is that person and of course Mark reports to Mary.

Interesting side note that comes up in the video. One of the biggest "here's why we don't want EVs" issues that keeps coming up is "who wants to pay $20,000 for a battery replacement". I have replied to some of those by saying that it is similar in cost to an engine replacement and that the cost of battery replacement comes down with the improvement in cost of battery cells. So what was the documented cost of engine replacement in the video? $21,000. For an engine that has a mature and mostly capital depreciated cost structure. Interesting.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

So what was the documented cost of engine replacement in the video? $21,000. For an engine that has a mature and mostly capital depreciated cost structure. Interesting.

Do they have to pay Carbon Credits to Elon for crate engines or ones from the parts inventory? Or only on complete new vehicles?

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well, yes and no. It happened while she was CEO so ultimately she has to bear responsibility for what the people who report to her do. But would this have happened if Mark Reuss or Dan Ammann had been selected as CEO instead of Mary? Yes it would have. Because the CEO is not the one who signs off on product design or validation tests or FMEA. That's on the head of the vehicle program, as well as the chief engineer for the engine. The head of each vehicle program reports to the head of Product Development. The head of Product Development (currently Ken Morris, reporting to Mark Reuss) is that person and of course Mark reports to Mary.

Interesting side note that comes up in the video. One of the biggest "here's why we don't want EVs" issues that keeps coming up is "who wants to pay $20,000 for a battery replacement". I have replied to some of those by saying that it is similar in cost to an engine replacement and that the cost of battery replacement comes down with the improvement in cost of battery cells. So what was the documented cost of engine replacement in the video? $21,000. For an engine that has a mature and mostly capital depreciated cost structure. Interesting.

If you can share any stats as to LT1 failure rates and/or EV battery failure rates that would be very interesting.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

If you can share any stats as to LT1 failure rates and/or EV battery failure rates that would be very interesting.

Good point.

Eventual battery failure rate is 100%, it's only a matter of time, and the bigger question is how long one can realistically run an EV with the original battery, because it also heavily affects resale value. A properly maintained LT1 can run for a very, very long time (thus mileage) before the vehicle requires an actual engine replacement, if at all.

Now I will say that everyone has slightly different tolerances and expectations of their vehicles, the best would be to have genuine, valid data so that we can make the best possible decision.

I do realize that user behavior such as oil change frequency for the ICE engine or charging habits for the EV also has an impact, to which I say we need data on that, too

[90503]

Its possible to rebuild your own engine and save a ton of money...

Has anyone ever rebuilt their own EV battery?

Meanwhile, at the save-the-planet lithium ion battery electric storage plant...

https://apnews.com/article/battery-s...cfb04722a8b1f8