[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

So, am I to presume neither is better or worse than the other? There are nuisances with each. For someone like me who desires a reliable, safe 800-850whp without cracking open the motor for a cam or heads, either would work fine without breaking a sweat. Add supporting low side and PI fuel supply for full E85 and go! Would I need headers (w/ hi flow cats here)? Would a 103mm TB do fine? A 120mm sure sounds like less restriction but wouldn’t that make idle/cruise tuning more difficult?

Guess I do have to mention, I’d like actual 800-850whp hitting the pavement (not SAE sea level corrected) but I’m at altitude. If I dyno’d now I’d be around 460whp so there’s a nice stretch in numbers to get there. Still possible with what I’ve mentioned as to how I’d like to get there?

I think both the 2650 and 3.0 would be beyond max to hit 800whp uncorrected at altitude with a stock long block. JSH needed heads, cam, ported Eddie 2650, 20 psi to hit 850 uncorrected, and the manifold air temps were getting hot. The 2650 was almost maxed to do it. In your case it might make more sense to go Huron speed twin kit.

[Katech_Mike]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Out of curiosity, what is highest blower rpm you’re seeing out of the 3.0 so far (on any platform)?

We have one that we're spinning a little over 20,000rpm. Makes 18psi on a 416ci engine and 1070rwhp on our dyno.

The most we've made with a 2650 (unported) is 1080rwhp through an 8 speed and that was with a tick over 25,000rpm on a 427ci engine for reference.

The 3.0L is promising but I'm afraid to spin one super hard to see where it'll go.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by Katech_Mike

We have one that we're spinning a little over 20,000rpm. Makes 18psi on a 416ci engine and 1070rwhp on our dyno.

The most we've made with a 2650 (unported) is 1080rwhp through an 8 speed and that was with a tick over 25,000rpm on a 427ci engine for reference.

The 3.0L is promising but I'm afraid to spin one super hard so see where it'll go.

Makes sense. I’d expect 60-80 WHP from porting the 2650 at that RPM assuming the engine was efficient and boost stayed relatively low.

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I think both the 2650 and 3.0 would be beyond max to hit 800whp uncorrected at altitude with a stock long block. JSH needed heads, cam, ported Eddie 2650, 20 psi to hit 850 uncorrected, and the manifold air temps were getting hot. The 2650 was almost maxed to do it. In your case it might make more sense to go Huron speed twin kit.

The SAE correction factor up here is 1.22 - that's a lot of loss. Hitting an 850rwhp at sea level equates to around 700rwhp on pavement here, not to mention I will have to deal with emissions (save the cats!). I've had hefty turbos in my past and loved the power (that's the way to go for big power). But, I'm really liking the instant torque hit of the SC. Both worlds would be grand (twincharged). I suppose a max SC (2650 or 3.0L) build on the SBE could be all I could ask for - see what that yields. Realistically, 700rwhp up here is probably all I could expect without serious motor mods. Thanks for the input - adjusting course.

[KingLT1]

700-750whp uncorrected would be doable for sure. And I understand about Turbos. I love the simplicity and torque of PD as well.

[laynlo15]

On my 16ss we made about 850 on 14-15 psi of boost with a non-ported 2650 and forged Manley short block, cam and stock heads except for springs. That was on MS109 race fuel and meth.
When I broke that stock Lt1 crank, bought a stock Lt4 short block with Btr cam from Carlyle racing, we did go to a bigger springs but the heads were still stock. It still made about the same power, we never had high intake temps at those power levels. We could have made much more power, but at that time in 2019 the fuel systems were still high priced and with the Lt4 fuel system upgrade with a boost pump we just didn't have enough fuel to make more.

[Lethal6SS]

Just beginning to research and understand supercharging my stock 2SS Fifty LT1. Is this an option for a stock LT1 on 91 octane pump gas here in higher altitude Colorado? What is the better choice, The Magnuson TVS2650R or the Whipple Gen 6 3.0L? What kind of HP gain can I expect? I want better street performance as a daily and will rarely track. I don't want to modify engine internals and spend anymore than these already expensive superchargers. Is there a better path with bolt on HP mods that would be cheaper. I need to pass emissions. Thanks in advance!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Lethal6SS

Just beginning to research and understand supercharging my stock 2SS Fifty LT1. Is this an option for a stock LT1 on 91 octane pump gas here in higher altitude Colorado? What is the better choice, The Magnuson TVS2650R or the Whipple Gen 6 3.0L? What kind of HP gain can I expect? I want better street performance as a daily and will rarely track. I don't want to modify engine internals and spend anymore than these already expensive superchargers. Is there a better path with bolt on HP mods that would be cheaper. I need to pass emissions. Thanks in advance!

This may be controversial, but please hear me out. Unless the emissions test is a simple OBD-II check and no underhood visual, you won't pass with a supercharger.

The Maggie 2650 and the new Whipple 3.0 are both made for high horsepower levels that are unattainable safely without serious fuel system investment and modifying internals. If you just want to slap it on, you'll be limited to 550-560 rwhp, the S/C will run well below its peak efficiency range, and you'll still need at least a minimal fuel system enhancement, say, a voltage booster... and then you'll still be running on the ragged edge of failure.

Also, if you want to save money and look into the non-forced induction path, the problem is you're even less likely to pass emissions with long tube headers and removed cats... E85 could be a solution, but you said you could only use 91 octane, which is dingo piss, even 93 is slightly too low for hot temperatures. Increasing power output through NA or FI upgrades will make things much worse (again, E85 would be your friend).

As my high school mates would say, you can't remain a virgin and also have kids . Don't straddle the fence, your car is a special edition already very good even in stock form and worth keeping intact, but if you really want serious power, you need to let go of these self-imposed baby step limitations.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Lethal6SS

Just beginning to research and understand supercharging my stock 2SS Fifty LT1. Is this an option for a stock LT1 on 91 octane pump gas here in higher altitude Colorado? What is the better choice, The Magnuson TVS2650R or the Whipple Gen 6 3.0L? What kind of HP gain can I expect? I want better street performance as a daily and will rarely track. I don't want to modify engine internals and spend anymore than these already expensive superchargers. Is there a better path with bolt on HP mods that would be cheaper. I need to pass emissions. Thanks in advance!

More of a preference thing here. Either will support far more power than your SBE LT1 can handle. No advantage either way in this case. If you were building a Max effort setup with full fuel system and forged bottom end, I still think it's more of a preference thing. The best blower was the Gen 1 Magnuson 2650. They then revised it and it's not as solid as the Gen 1. Most would never know that unless they were pushing for 1100+ whp. The Gen 2 2650 and Whipple 3.0 seem pretty close. The 6th gen has kind of died off as you can tell by the lack of activity on the forums. It has even died on SM, so not sure if you will see very many try to out gun a Magnuson with a Whipple. The few that are trying to go fast these days are running turbos and a th400 trans.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

More of a preference thing here. Either will support far more power than your SBE LT1 can handle. No advantage either way in this case. If you were building a Max effort setup with full fuel system and forged bottom end, I still think it's more of a preference thing. The best blower was the Gen 1 Magnuson 2650. They then revised it and it's not as solid as the Gen 1. Most would never know that unless they were pushing for 1100+ whp. The Gen 2 2650 and Whipple 3.0 seem pretty close. The 6th gen has kind of died off as you can tell by the lack of activity on the forums. It has even died on SM, so not sure if you will see very many try to out gun a Magnuson with a Whipple. The few that are trying to go fast these days are running turbos and a th400 trans.

Truth!

[Lethal6SS]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

This may be controversial, but please hear me out. Unless the emissions test is a simple OBD-II check and no underhood visual, you won't pass with a supercharger.

The Maggie 2650 and the new Whipple 3.0 are both made for high horsepower levels that are unattainable safely without serious fuel system investment and modifying internals. If you just want to slap it on, you'll be limited to 550-560 rwhp, the S/C will run well below its peak efficiency range, and you'll still need at least a minimal fuel system enhancement, say, a voltage booster... and then you'll still be running on the ragged edge of failure.

Also, if you want to save money and look into the non-forced induction path, the problem is you're even less likely to pass emissions with long tube headers and removed cats... E85 could be a solution, but you said you could only use 91 octane, which is dingo piss, even 93 is slightly too low for hot temperatures. Increasing power output through NA or FI upgrades will make things much worse (again, E85 would be your friend).

As my high school mates would say, you can't remain a virgin and also have kids . Don't straddle the fence, your car is a special edition already very good even in stock form and worth keeping intact, but if you really want serious power, you need to let go of these self-imposed baby step limitations.

I did more research and totally agree with you. Supercharging is way too much for this stock LT1 without engine modifications and then the price goes thru the roof. Change of mind for sure. Going with a flex fuel kit, a LT2 intake manifold, and a good tune. Stock exhaust with dual NPP and a Borla axle back S-type is what is on there now. Would the LT2 intake be overkill or will it be a good upgrade to go along with the E85? Can't do headers so I think that's about all I can do with a good tune to get some added hp. Also, do I need to get a bigger throttle body to attach to the intake? The LT5 95 mm throttle body to be exact?
Thank you for the input!

[Lethal6SS]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

More of a preference thing here. Either will support far more power than your SBE LT1 can handle. No advantage either way in this case. If you were building a Max effort setup with full fuel system and forged bottom end, I still think it's more of a preference thing. The best blower was the Gen 1 Magnuson 2650. They then revised it and it's not as solid as the Gen 1. Most would never know that unless they were pushing for 1100+ whp. The Gen 2 2650 and Whipple 3.0 seem pretty close. The 6th gen has kind of died off as you can tell by the lack of activity on the forums. It has even died on SM, so not sure if you will see very many try to out gun a Magnuson with a Whipple. The few that are trying to go fast these days are running turbos and a th400 trans.

Yes, understood. Could I please get your input from my reply to @arpad_m.
Do you think the LT2 intake manifold would be a good bolt on upgrade to add some hp along with the E85 flex fuel kit and a good tune? Do I need the bigger 95 mm throttle body as well? Thanks guys!!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Lethal6SS

I did more research and totally agree with you. Supercharging is way too much for this stock LT1 without engine modifications and then the price goes thru the roof. Change of mind for sure. Going with a flex fuel kit, a LT2 intake manifold, and a good tune. Stock exhaust with dual NPP and a Borla axle back S-type is what is on there now. Would the LT2 intake be overkill or will it be a good upgrade to go along with the E85? Can't do headers so I think that's about all I can do with a good tune to get some added hp. Also, do I need to get a bigger throttle body to attach to the intake? The LT5 95 mm throttle body to be exact?
Thank you for the input!

I think a flex fuel kit, cold air intake, LT2 intake manifold and LT5 throttle body combo with a professional tune is a sensible plan. You may need to trim the LT2 intake manifold, I have no experience with that component, but there are several relevant threads in the forums. Dyno numbers naturally won't be as good as with more extensive changes, but you'll definitely feel the difference.

Again, I'm not sure what your emissions testing involves, but these changes would be relatively subtle and your exhaust won't be much louder than stock either.

Don't sleep on the remote tuning option, there are several great tuners even in this forum (Megahurtz or KingLT1, for example). I went to Jannetty Racing for my build because I have neither the tools nor, frankly, the knowledge and experience to rebuild an engine, and Ted Jannetty's tune that I'm running is spot on. My car's behavior is fantastic, and Ted is a deep fountain of quality with integrity, so I can wholeheartedly recommend him from personal experience.

Last thing, I'd contact a tuner before purchasing any of these parts and discuss the plan, they may have additional suggestions worth considering.

[Lethal6SS]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I think a flex fuel kit, cold air intake, LT2 intake manifold and LT5 throttle body combo with a professional tune is a sensible plan. You may need to trim the LT2 intake manifold, I have no experience with that component, but there are several relevant threads in the forums. Dyno numbers naturally won't be as good as with more extensive changes, but you'll definitely feel the difference.

Again, I'm not sure what your emissions testing involves, but these changes would be relatively subtle and your exhaust won't be much louder than stock either.

Don't sleep on the remote tuning option, there are several great tuners even in this forum (Megahurtz or KingLT1, for example). I went to Jannetty Racing for my build because I have neither the tools nor, frankly, the knowledge and experience to rebuild an engine, and Ted Jannetty's tune that I'm running is spot on. My car's behavior is fantastic, and Ted is a deep fountain of quality with integrity, so I can wholeheartedly recommend him from personal experience.

Last thing, I'd contact a tuner before purchasing any of these parts and discuss the plan, they may have additional suggestions worth considering.

I do have a local tuner that was recommended by a friend who I talked to and seems very knowledgeable on these upgrades and tuning. He mentioned the bigger throttle body and adaptor, and several other things needed to extend the MAP harness, etc. I'll need to get more details before ordering for sure. He said he would install the intake and do the tune. I can install the flex fuel kit myself prior to going. Thanks for the input!!