[Saberscar223]

I have an A10 Camaro SS and I’ve wanted to do a cam for a while and I’ve finally saved up for it. I have Kooks 2” LTH, E85 and a CAI. I’ve heard that the valves have issues with an aftermarket cam and stock heads is this true?

The DOD delete is much more than I thought it was and that’s required but the Heads add an unaffordable 3k to the whole deal.

Will I be safe running a stage 1 with the stock heads?

[FlukeSS]

I have stock heads. Pretty sure I still have stock valves, but otherwise aftermarket lifters and NGK sparkplugs.

Cam will benefit more with ported heads / aftermarket heads though. Gain more HP. I think for me I'm at about 70 hp with E85, but you can get up to 90 or so with ported heads or aftermarket heads.

[Saberscar223]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

I have stock heads. Pretty sure I still have stock valves, but otherwise aftermarket lifters and NGK sparkplugs.

Cam will benefit more with ported heads / aftermarket heads though. Gain more HP. I think for me I'm at about 70 hp with E85, but you can get up to 90 or so with ported heads or aftermarket heads.

How is the drivability? I’ve heard A10s still feel like stock even with a bigger cam until you step on it.

[FH212]

I am curious about this myself......I am trying to decide to mod mine or sell it.

[GreyGhost702]

Originally Posted by FH212

I am curious about this myself......I am trying to decide to mod mine or sell it.

There's nothing unsafe about running stock heads in any situation or setup. It's a matter of efficiency. Some cam grinds are designed around having bigger valves or a specific head volume. Most of your entry level and shelf cams are not. I debated this myself for a while when doing research for my build, if I wanted to run a ported or stock head. At a certain point, pushing big power, the heads will become a bottleneck without porting or moving to an aftermarket cast. But you're talking big power. From a NA perspective, absolutely never would have an issue with the stock head. Valvetrain, yes. But not the head cast.

With most combos, the question of stock vs ported really comes down to the question of, how much power are you willing to leave on the table? But as a requirement, nah. To be required to run a ported or aftermarket cast, you're doing something that is already so expensive, the cost of better heads will be nothing more than a supporting mod in the build sheet.

There is a more important question to answer, though, when considering ported heads and in particular having the stock heads ported. It's usually a 1 shot deal, once you port the heads, you don't get do-overs and can't go back. If you do port your heads, you really want to *KNOW* what the ultimate goal for the car is. If you're going to stay NA and want to maximize your power for any specific thing like drag, autocross, or weekend warrioring. Or going boost. You want to tell your machinist that.

Any time you can tailor the head port, the better. Hogging the heads out to the max isn't necessarily the best thing to do. NA cars care a lot more about air velocity than volume. A set of hogged out heads might make a big peak number, but roll out of the hole like a wet saint bernard. Just because you make a great peak number doesn't mean you can't lose time on the track. Most cars spend far more time in their mid-range power band than in their peak. Torque is also a lot more fun than horsepower, but that's my opinion and I am rather bias about it. I despise moving the power curve to the right. I'd rather just go straight up. But I like drift cars and blowers that stick out of the hood.

As far as modding or selling, I just jumped off that fence and I'm already ready to walk around to the other side again, LOL. Modding this car so far has been a royal pain and not cheap, either. I wanted to make the car special, as I do all my toy vehicles. This one makes me want to throw tools. I'm already on my path and I'm going to finish the car and enjoy it for a couple years, but in my mind it's already sold after that. My feelings may change in the years to come, maybe I'll end up keeping it forever. Who knows. But, in this instance if I got a do-over token and could rewind the clock, I'd tell myself 6 months ago to go ahead and sell it. I would have been happy with a ZL1 or GT350, or modding a 5th Gen Camaro. There really wasn't a happy middle ground with this LT1. You can forge the bottom end for what it costs to add +70hp NA. Then you can run whatever you want, but boost is still the best bang for the buck and with the forged bottom, you don't have to sweat the dreaded ring land, which is probably way over-hyped but even I fell into that trap. Considering a bare LT1 block goes for around $2k, I didn't want roll the dice on it. And like I said, you can drop in forged rods/pistons for that, so why not. Good luck with your decision though. And remember. It's just money.

[FH212]

Thank you for this reply. This is exactly what has been stopping me from modding honestly. This isn’t the first time I’ve read on these forums what you’ve written basically other people have said the same thing. I just don’t know if it’s worth it. I want to stay NA. And I don’t even want a crap ton of power. 500 to the rear wheels is a nice spot to be in for the street. I’m not dragracing. I’m not auto crossing. I just want to have some more power than I do now. My Mecham Trans Am is 500 to the rear wheels and it’s a whole lot more fun to drive than my Camaro, especially when I drive them back to back my Camaro needs more power. I’m really considering selling to get a ZL1 and be done. And then there’s a fact that I can buy a Whippled 810 hp brand new S650 Mustang with a warranty for 50k. Like Chevy why did you leave me like this!!!

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by FH212

Thank you for this reply. This is exactly what has been stopping me from modding honestly. This isn’t the first time I’ve read on these forums what you’ve written basically other people have said the same thing. I just don’t know if it’s worth it. I want to stay NA. And I don’t even want a crap ton of power. 500 to the rear wheels is a nice spot to be in for the street. I’m not dragracing. I’m not auto crossing. I just want to have some more power than I do now. My Mecham Trans Am is 500 to the rear wheels and it’s a whole lot more fun to drive than my Camaro, especially when I drive them back to back my Camaro needs more power. I’m really considering selling to get a ZL1 and be done. And then there’s a fact that I can buy a Whippled 810 hp brand new S650 Mustang with a warranty for 50k. Like Chevy why did you leave me like this!!!

My gripe with our platform is I have a hard time accepting that going heads cam will only net me a little over 500 whp while still costing the same as just boosting a Mustang. I too feel like 500 whp would be a nice sweet spot for the street however I think you’re a little bit like me and there’s a chance where we get used to that power and then we have to dump a ton more money to move past it. With an s550/650 as you already know that platform has a lot more potential with the stock motor. If I get used to say 600 whp on a booster mustang I can still safely pulley down .Same thing if you just move into a zl1.

Anyway you should try doing a track day in your 1le. You might get hooked like I just did! I can promise you that you won’t be feeling the need for more power while on a roadcourse, at least not for awhile. While I wish I had more power on the street I’m cool waiting on that a bit while I continue tracking my 1le.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by Saberscar223

How is the drivability? I’ve heard A10s still feel like stock even with a bigger cam until you step on it.

Drivability is wonky at first, but it does depend on the tune for drivability.

I had to have mine adjusted because of a few odd issues. RPM drops to 500 when braking which I guess is a quark of how the cam works.

Shift points need to be adjusted. Torque converter lock out and release needs to be adjusted.

But once everything is set its very easy on low end and cruising speeds. Its a different animal when you romp on it.

Bigger cams rumble more than smaller cams. Drivability with bigger cams will be a lot more noticeably worse. Stage 1 shouldn't be a huge issue. You can tune out chop or tune it in if you want it.

[GreyGhost702]

Originally Posted by FH212

Thank you for this reply. This is exactly what has been stopping me from modding honestly. This isn’t the first time I’ve read on these forums what you’ve written basically other people have said the same thing. I just don’t know if it’s worth it. I want to stay NA. And I don’t even want a crap ton of power. 500 to the rear wheels is a nice spot to be in for the street. I’m not dragracing. I’m not auto crossing. I just want to have some more power than I do now. My Mecham Trans Am is 500 to the rear wheels and it’s a whole lot more fun to drive than my Camaro, especially when I drive them back to back my Camaro needs more power. I’m really considering selling to get a ZL1 and be done. And then there’s a fact that I can buy a Whippled 810 hp brand new S650 Mustang with a warranty for 50k. Like Chevy why did you leave me like this!!!

500 isn't a huge stretch. Could do a budget build. It's not always flashy, but for instance:

BTR220 Cam/Dual Springs/Pushrods/Cam Tool/4 degree limiter - $900
GM Racing Lifters - $540
LT2 IM w/Cover - $300
LT2 IM Prep Kit - $45
LT5 95mm TB - $185
LT5 TB Adapter - $80
Gaskets/seals/hardware/lube - $300-$400
Budget Headers w/cats - $1500 (+$400 for shop work if no DIY)
DSX Flex Fuel Kit - $380
Rotofab CAI - $500 (Could save $200~ on a budget intake)

$5200~ before tuning. Tuner fees range pretty wide. Remote tuning is usually cheaper, dyno tuning more expensive. IMO, figure spending whatever the hardware cost for your choice of tuning, and budget for $1,000 in fees and hope for less lol. $7000 Grand total, before hopes and dreams discount. And this is turning the wrenches yourself, as paying someone else to do it is not budget friendly. Obviously, if you lack the skill/knowledge, a good shop is the safer method, I can't say the LT platform is beginner friendly by any means.

Should net you +75hp over stock on pump gas through unported heads. With E85, should be good for another +20hp, maybe +30hp, on top of that. I feel the +75hp is being conservative. I think this build is good for 500 to the tire. Obviously, ported heads would free up some more power. But figure on average $1200-$1500 for a decent machine shop fee, presuming no new valves or any head issues. And then there's the wait time...

Any way you look at boost, you're in it way more. Obviously you get more in return. You could get away with never needing to forge it, and live around 550-600whp on a great tune. I've never known anyone who ran boost who didn't eventually start turning the boost up, though. Boost is like your favorite song on the radio, you can't help but turn it up a little, and then a little more. I will say the LT's are monsters NA. While 500-550whp NA is unassuming, it's very fast, and far more streetable than what most boosted applications will suffer in terms of traction and control.

Figure if you want to buy a Coyote and just slap FI on it, on average the car is going for $30k~ depending on model year, trim, miles. Another $12,000 or so for your prefered blower and supporting mods (fuel mostly) and tuning. So potentially $42,000 for 600-700whp coyote. And yeah, it'll probably live there forever provided no unfortunate mishaps. It's tough man. Ford makes it so easy. 6 Gen Camaro on the track, all day is going to spank GT's apples to apples. The Camaro is purpose built better, IMHO. But the Mustang is ultimately cheaper and mod friendly. The GT350 is sex on wheels, IMO. That flat plane sings. It does seem like the voodoo engine is hex'd, but it seems as long as you pound on that engine like it was designed to be, it actually holds together better. Who among us would spare the whip, behind the wheel of that car anyway? I'm amazed anyone could grandpa one around.

I better quit with the 'stang drooling before I get banned LOL. If you want to make 500 NA, it's doable in a decent budget range, as long as you're happy with what you get and don't start wanting MOAR. Otherwise it takes about $12k-$16k to make the LT1 what it needs to be. Which suspiciously.... is about how much more you need to spend to climb into a ZL1...

[FH212]

Originally Posted by GreyGhost702

500 isn't a huge stretch. Could do a budget build. It's not always flashy, but for instance:

BTR220 Cam/Dual Springs/Pushrods/Cam Tool/4 degree limiter - $900
GM Racing Lifters - $540
LT2 IM w/Cover - $300
LT2 IM Prep Kit - $45
LT5 95mm TB - $185
LT5 TB Adapter - $80
Gaskets/seals/hardware/lube - $300-$400
Budget Headers w/cats - $1500 (+$400 for shop work if no DIY)
DSX Flex Fuel Kit - $380
Rotofab CAI - $500 (Could save $200~ on a budget intake)

$5200~ before tuning. Tuner fees range pretty wide. Remote tuning is usually cheaper, dyno tuning more expensive. IMO, figure spending whatever the hardware cost for your choice of tuning, and budget for $1,000 in fees and hope for less lol. $7000 Grand total, before hopes and dreams discount. And this is turning the wrenches yourself, as paying someone else to do it is not budget friendly. Obviously, if you lack the skill/knowledge, a good shop is the safer method, I can't say the LT platform is beginner friendly by any means.

Should net you +75hp over stock on pump gas through unported heads. With E85, should be good for another +20hp, maybe +30hp, on top of that. I feel the +75hp is being conservative. I think this build is good for 500 to the tire. Obviously, ported heads would free up some more power. But figure on average $1200-$1500 for a decent machine shop fee, presuming no new valves or any head issues. And then there's the wait time...

Any way you look at boost, you're in it way more. Obviously you get more in return. You could get away with never needing to forge it, and live around 550-600whp on a great tune. I've never known anyone who ran boost who didn't eventually start turning the boost up, though. Boost is like your favorite song on the radio, you can't help but turn it up a little, and then a little more. I will say the LT's are monsters NA. While 500-550whp NA is unassuming, it's very fast, and far more streetable than what most boosted applications will suffer in terms of traction and control.

Figure if you want to buy a Coyote and just slap FI on it, on average the car is going for $30k~ depending on model year, trim, miles. Another $12,000 or so for your prefered blower and supporting mods (fuel mostly) and tuning. So potentially $42,000 for 600-700whp coyote. And yeah, it'll probably live there forever provided no unfortunate mishaps. It's tough man. Ford makes it so easy. 6 Gen Camaro on the track, all day is going to spank GT's apples to apples. The Camaro is purpose built better, IMHO. But the Mustang is ultimately cheaper and mod friendly. The GT350 is sex on wheels, IMO. That flat plane sings. It does seem like the voodoo engine is hex'd, but it seems as long as you pound on that engine like it was designed to be, it actually holds together better. Who among us would spare the whip, behind the wheel of that car anyway? I'm amazed anyone could grandpa one around.

I better quit with the 'stang drooling before I get banned LOL. If you want to make 500 NA, it's doable in a decent budget range, as long as you're happy with what you get and don't start wanting MOAR. Otherwise it takes about $12k-$16k to make the LT1 what it needs to be. Which suspiciously.... is about how much more you need to spend to climb into a ZL1...

That is very tempting. I’ve got a lot to think about…….

[Saberscar223]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Drivability is wonky at first, but it does depend on the tune for drivability.

I had to have mine adjusted because of a few odd issues. RPM drops to 500 when braking which I guess is a quark of how the cam works.

Shift points need to be adjusted. Torque converter lock out and release needs to be adjusted.

But once everything is set its very easy on low end and cruising speeds. Its a different animal when you romp on it.

Bigger cams rumble more than smaller cams. Drivability with bigger cams will be a lot more noticeably worse. Stage 1 shouldn't be a huge issue. You can tune out chop or tune it in if you want it.

Okay gotcha. What stage cam do you have?