[haggler]

Originally Posted by FollowMyLine

Wow, so much activity on the thread! I'll have to dig in a bit more on the questions I missed, but I DID FIND the Oil Data Sheet on Mobil 1's website updated in 2022, which includes the latest versions of the oils listed.

Mobil 1 Oil Data Sheet - May 2022

Strange, The Oil Data Sheet I found initially had the DexosR stuff and that link doesn't. Here is a picture that I can't seem to find anymore.

I linked it in an earlier post. It's available if you look on the right side of the page on the specific mobil 1 oil info under " zinc and phosphorus levels."

[ZPirate]

Originally Posted by FollowMyLine

Honestly, after looking at all of the different data between the Euro Formula ESP and the Supercar 0W-40, I can't seem to find a reason why it would not work and be safe to use. Maybe my GM insider was just covering himself by recommending the Supercar oils and the 15W-50 because it is what they have actually physically tested with.

Next time I get a chance to speak with him, I will ask him again.

That's what I (and others) have been saying all along. I just don't see anything in the specs for ESPX3 0W-40 that would indicate that it wouldn't be safe to use in an LT1 or LT4. It's Dexos2 and ESP and it was developed in conjunction with Porsche. I think you could be right about why your GM insider didn't endorse it.

[N Camarolina]

I really wanted to be able to use the Supercar 5W-50 year-round since I track mine, but the unanswered concerns about zinc and phosphorus being the Dexos2 spec plus the unknown about whether it will flow well enough on cold start up to protect as well as 0W-40 and 5W-30 have me unwilling to use it.

Hopefully others will be able to add more info here to change my mind.

[clotspond]

I get the whole EPA thing but from a warranty point of view and what works for a street driven car, why are these difficult to find oils the focus? Most people here worry about their warranty more so than the EPA. GM has really muddied the waters on this.
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[Capricio]

Going with ESPX3 until someone can explain to me, factually/analytically, how it is substantially different/deficient compared to Supercar at nearly double the price and limited availability. To each, their own.

[LancevanceZLE]

5w50 is interesting, and it seems to be better than 15w50 for daily driving. The question remains how much better it really is? Maybe time will tell?

[CTRifecta]

Is m1 0w40 euro formula okay to run?

[FollowMyLine]

Originally Posted by LancevanceZLE

5w50 is interesting, and it seems to be better than 15w50 for daily driving. The question remains how much better it really is? Maybe time will tell?

Time will tell. I’ve been running it for a while, and I’ll have about 8 hours of track use on it as well when I do the oil analysis.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by CTRifecta

Is m1 0w40 euro formula okay to run?

Technically no, according to the manual. Better to spend extra for the correct oil in case they ask for receipts in the event of a warranty claim.

[ZPirate]

Originally Posted by CTRifecta

Is m1 0w40 euro formula okay to run?

If your car is a 2023 or 2024, probably not for warranty purposes, since as of the 2023 model year GM is recommended Mobil1 0W-40 Supercar for the LT1 and LT4 engines. For model years prior to 2023 Mobil1 0W-40 ESPX3 should be fine as it was previously on the list of GM approved oils.

[N Camarolina]

I'm not a conspiracy type person, but in this case with GM recommending the Dexos R oils that they sell almost exclusively at their dealerships, it does look awfully suspicious. I say this because:

1) The "old" 0w40 ESP, which was Dexos2 compliant was rebranded at Supercar, which was suddendly Dexos R compliant. What is the Dexos R specifications? I wasn't able to find it on the internet.

2) The 0w40 ESP x3 (Euro formula for Porsche) has almost the same specs as the "old" ESP version from point #1 and is not only Dexos2 compliant, but has seems to be better than the Supercar version because it has a better high-temp shear value. Yet somehow it's not listed as OK to use in 2023+ LT1 engines.

3) The 5w50 Supercar is also rated as Dexos R compliant, yet has considerably higher zinc and phosphorous content than the Supercar 0w-40, and unknown sulphated ash levels. I think if there is indeed a Dexos R standard, it's consistent with however the 5w50 is formulated.

The Supercar 0w40 isn't so much matching Dexos R formulation, but rather it's SAPS levels are just lower than the 5w50. But they put the Dexos R designation on it and say in the manual that you have to use it so that you can't buy the other Dexos2 oils (ESP x3 and the offerings from companies other than M1). All of which serves to funnel more money and profit to dealer's service departments.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I'm not a conspiracy type person, but in this case with GM recommending the Dexos R oils that they sell almost exclusively at their dealerships, it does look awfully suspicious. I say this because:

1) The "old" 0w40 ESP, which was Dexos2 compliant was rebranded at Supercar, which was suddendly Dexos R compliant. What is the Dexos R specifications? I wasn't able to find it on the internet.

2) The 0w40 ESP x3 (Euro formula for Porsche) has almost the same specs as the "old" ESP version from point #1 and is not only Dexos2 compliant, but has seems to be better than the Supercar version because it has a better high-temp shear value. Yet somehow it's not listed as OK to use in 2023+ LT1 engines.

3) The 5w50 Supercar is also rated as Dexos R compliant, yet has considerably higher zinc and phosphorous content than the Supercar 0w-40, and unknown sulphated ash levels. I think if there is indeed a Dexos R standard, it's consistent with however the 5w50 is formulated.

The Supercar 0w40 isn't so much matching Dexos R formulation, but rather it's SAPS levels are just lower than the 5w50. But they put the Dexos R designation on it and say in the manual that you have to use it so that you can't buy the other Dexos2 oils (ESP x3 and the offerings from companies other than M1). All of which serves to funnel more money and profit to dealer's service departments.

The "conspiracy" part of it comes down to GM making money. Any of the dexos certifications come at a cost to the oil company that wants to put it on their label. Not only do they have to ensure that their oil meets the actual technical standards, they have to submit it to a GM lab for testing to prove that (not bad so far). That test, however, comes with a steep cost which the oil manufacturer passes on directly to you on each quart of oil PLUS they charge more simply because it carries that label.

GM then "sunsets" the various certifications requiring that the various labels no longer be used on marketing the products and the manufacturers have to submit another sample for another test with the new label. Changing from dexos1 to dexos2, or dexos2 to dexosR (or whatever else they come up with going forward) makes it seem like the oils are getting better and better while they aren't really changing. They "learned their lesson" with dexos1 by shifting first to gen2 and now gen3 for that cert line...

I'd love to see the actual specs for the oils instead of BS marketing crap labels that are specifically set up to expire over time (making it harder for folks to find the correct oils going forward).

[arpad_m]

When I got my car back from Jannetty after the last upgrade, I decided to just buy Amsoil and call it a day. Not sponsoring these certification games.

[CalgaryZL1]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

When I got my car back from Jannetty after the last upgrade, I decided to just buy Amsoil and call it a day. Not sponsoring these certification games.

I use amsoil, up north here it’s hard to find any selection of Mobil camaro fairy dust